Off Topic European Debate Thread

each year just less than £1 a week of our tax is euro tax a rough figure it does not seem a lot but in the wider picture it is .. with just half of it saved and into the uk economy, the other half put toward paying off the residual "black hole " deficit from the last labour government we would soon be stable and prosperous ...

L E A V E

 

I have not read Banksy's link's but it is becoming more and more like "OUR DAVID" HAS LOST THE PLOT ON THE European issue.. issue's, he's seemingly feeling he has backed the wrong horse! and making all sorts of excuses to try and keep face or make excuses as to why it might not win

it is as if they are already part of the euro union and trying to bully the population into submitting to their thoughts and wishes ...

 

Norway is lucky to have a load of natural resources which does you good no matter what situation you're in.

Norway still have freedom of movement and as it's such a big issue for everyone I don't think they are the best non Eu model to look at

 

Where the hell do they go,not to mention the implications of them coming here

 

Poor extrapolation to manipulate a survey I'm afraid. Only 2,600 surveyed and so it is likely to be a specific background who are more likely to want to come such as students wanting to study at uni.

Extrapolation of a small survey to such a large magnitude is very unreliable

 

I hope you're correct but I can't see it. I would imagine (as both sides are doing) the estimate is made on the extreme, i.e. we leave and we all prosper and immigration is in minuscule numbers. Having said that, house prices are one thing which are really twisting my arm on this one. I'm hoping to buy my first place in the next year or so, but (without meaning to sound arrogant in any way), I do not know one person my age who has yet managed to buy a house. It's nigh on impossible for the younger ones these days.

And RR, that front page is absolute nonsense.

 

This is exactly the problem with this referendum.. too many lies from both sides..

We had a government minister saying yesterday the UK holds no veto over turkey joining the EU and Cameron saying we do? but then he said theres no way they're getting in for decades yet a few years ago he was championing their cause and making it his priority?

MTG.. I was led to believe a sample for survey purpose has to be more than 2000 people for it to have any accuracy? it says it was a wide ranging survey across different. I'm sure 12m won't be able to come here.. (they simply won't all fit)

 

Another massive reason to vote out-

It's all run through the Davos lot and is supported by Cameron The US and the EU it destroys sovereignty (but interestingly not the USs. Oh and for good measure it will remove the restrictions out on bankers in the wake of the crash.

The NHS is small fry in the TTIP plans....it's basically selling our futures to late multinationals....but for free.

Late multinational corporations would have free access to all our business and government structure from NHS to Army, Police to local services. No government can stop them as it would be anti-profit and will be sued for billions. You will have no privacy and the real word leaders would be bankers and the multinational CEOs. Put it simply we'd all become slaves with no rights....it is that bad

Once in place no going back-no we can't it would be illegal. Once TTIP is signed we're stuck with it and it's consequences. We'd be owned

Makes you wonder what Obama's real reason for encouraging us to stay in the EU really are.



TTIP’s ‘regulatory convergence’ agenda will seek to bring EU standards on food safety and the environment closer to those of the US. But US regulations are much less strict, with 70 per cent of all processed foods sold in US supermarkets now containing genetically modified ingredients. By contrast, the EU allows virtually no GM foods. The US also has far laxer restrictions on the use of pesticides. It also uses growth hormones in its beef which are restricted in Europe due to links to cancer. US farmers have tried to have these restrictions lifted repeatedly in the past through the World Trade Organisation and it is likely that they will use TTIP to do so again.

The same goes for the environment, where the EU’s REACH regulations are far tougher on potentially toxic substances. In Europe a company has to prove a substance is safe before it can be used; in the US the opposite is true: any substance can be used until it is proven unsafe. As an example, the EU currently bans 1,200 substances from use in cosmetics; the US just 12.

3 Banking regulations

TTIP cuts both ways. The UK, under the influence of the all-powerful City of London, is thought to be seeking a loosening of US banking regulations. America’s financial rules are tougher than ours. They were put into place after the financial crisis to directly curb the powers of bankers and avoid a similar crisis happening again. TTIP, it is feared, will remove those restrictions, effectively handing all those powers back to the bankers.

4 Privacy

Remember ACTA (the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement)? It was thrown out by a massive majority in the European Parliament in 2012 after a huge public backlash against what was rightly seen as an attack on individual privacy where internet service providers would be required to monitor people’s online activity. Well, it’s feared that TTIP could be bringing back ACTA’s central elements, proving that if the democratic approach doesn’t work, there’s always the back door. An easing of data privacy laws and a restriction of public access to pharmaceutical companies’ clinical trials are also thought to be on the cards.

5 Jobs

The EU has admitted that TTIP will probably cause unemployment as jobs switch to the US, where labour standards and trade union rights are lower. It has even advised EU members to draw on European support funds to compensate for the expected unemployment.

Examples from other similar bi-lateral trade agreements around the world support the case for job losses. The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) between the US, Canada and Mexico caused the loss of one million US jobs over 12 years, instead of the hundreds of thousands of extra that were promised.

6 Democracy

TTIP’s biggest threat to society is its inherent assault on democracy. One of the main aims of TTIP is the introduction of Investor-State Dispute Settlements (ISDS), which allow companies to sue governments if those governments’ policies cause a loss of profits. In effect it means unelected transnational corporations can dictate the policies of democratically elected governments.

ISDSs are already in place in other bi-lateral trade agreements around the world and have led to such injustices as in Germany where Swedish energy company Vattenfall is suing the German government for billions of dollars over its decision to phase out nuclear power plants in the wake of the Fukushima disaster in Japan. Here we see a public health policy put into place by a democratically elected government being threatened by an energy giant because of a potential loss of profit. Nothing could be more cynically anti-democratic.

There are around 500 similar cases of businesses versus nations going on around the world at the moment and they are all taking place before ‘arbitration tribunals’ made up of corporate lawyers appointed on an ad hoc basis, which according to War on Want’s John Hilary, are “little more than kangaroo courts” with “a vested interest in ruling in favour of business.”

So I don’t know about you, but I’m scared. I would vote against TTIP, except… hang on a minute… I can’t. Like you, I have no say whatsoever in whether TTIP goes through or not. All I can do is tell as many people about it as possible, as I hope, will you. We may be forced to accept an attack on democracy but we can at least fight against the conspiracy of silence.

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Have you noticed the latest argument that's creeping in for staying IN?
'Research' apparently shows that if you're educated you're more likely to
vote IN, less educated vote OUT.
Very subtle......if you vote IN you're clever. if you vote OUT you're a
THICKO!

 

RR, I really don't mean to be rude mate, but copying and pasting whole articles really doesn't get your point across.

 

It is leading issues that people need to be aware of,this is something i have only just been made aware off.

 

What exactly? I don't even get it, it's in a bizarre context.

 

This explains what TTIP is and the pitfalls involved.. no one seems to like this little lot..

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html

 

Yes, very subtle.. will catch the kids that, its almost subliminal.

Hey ho.. I'm a thicko then

 

What is it Dave? you keep contradicting yourself?

 

So I'm confused RR are you voting out

Because you've not voiced your own opinion just copy and pasted waffle

 

I'll be voting our purely based on the fact that our NHS pays 350m a week for Europe. This will stop if we leave. That's 1.4 billion a month saved. That's just under 17 billion a year. This need to be going into our NHS for our citizens.

 

That stat is a lie BTW

There's absolutely no guarantee that the money paid into Eu will go on the NHS.

The NHS doesn't pay any money to eu it comes from tax.

The leave campaign is very ****ty by misleading people this way on such a false statistic.

 

This link may help shiny

http://healthierin.eu/2016/05/vote-leave-deliberately-misleading-nhs/