it says in Ehabs letter he is putting away fans in West Upper so... That must mean home fans can go back in E1 to E3 surely? There was a lot written about the reasons why the Allams moved fans out of there. Retribution, pettiness. Steve Bruce wanted home fans behind the goal. Away fans couldnt go in West Upper. Posters may remember Dutch got a lot of grief asking who was behind the move without answers, he questioned why ctwd/trust didnt offer support. We all took the piss, me included. Then i read an interesting post on CI yesterday... http://www.hullcityindependent.net/?page=forum&forum_id=8&thread_id=23617 I was party to the then CEO's plans for the ground which included a safe standing area. I thought that the North Stand was a way to achieve that. The membership scheme has a slivver of the thinking that was disscussed at the time. Membership with a view to ownership, zones in the ground that would see like-minded supporters together and thus able to enjoy the experience they wanted without infringing on others. I still believed at the time that the north stand could have been a new place for like minded supporters but it was clear from day one that most have already sacked it off. As you know I resigned my position on the supporters trust at the same time as my season card. I have made mistakes as I gave the Allams the benefit of the doubt before the name change etc. then I met them... And Dutchs reply I've made my views on the north stand situation and consequent evictions known right from the off. It was always going to be a failure for the reasons I mentioned at the time, and that have since turned out to be sadly, very accurate. Mainly because they were so bloody obvious. Your mistake (and it's not yours alone) wasn't so much listening to the Allams, but not listening to City fans affected and driving ahead with pushing your own scheme in spite of its effect on others. It's also a bit late to be owning up to knowing about it and discussing it with the club, when previously that was vehemently denied. The lack of reaction against, and the support for those evictions, is a part of what has lead the Allams to think they can do it anywhere in the ground. "Good Change is good Bad change is stupid" as some might say. I've had my arguements with Dutch but fair play to him here. He knew there was something up and it seems accusing the Allams of not listening was wide of the mark. They listened to people with their own agenda. They may have done it anyway but some fans actively wanted it. A leading light of ctwd and the trust at the time too. Anyway are fans going to be allowed back into E1 to E3??
I might try & relocate there! I don't fancy having away fans above me! Only at the kc would they let away fans be above the directors box!
That's because the Allams know they won't have to sit there. If I thought they would be there, I'd set about getting myself away tickets at the Circle next season
The ideal place for away fans should have always been in the South west corner lower. That would make them off camara,hard to pick up on the microphones and still leave three sides and upper west available including both ends for home support. Unfortunately,those who knew better decided to build the fricking club house in the South east wrongly thinking the singers from the Kempton would flood the South stand. This was never going to happen as most Kempton lads wanted a side on view. In doing what they did back then,the simply spread what singers and hard core we had all over the place as prices for the East Stand where lower than the West upper,this in turn created a situation were those who simply wanted a bargain ended up smack bang in the very area many other lads wanted to go. End result...chaos as flaskers and old a like gobbled up seats next to those who expect diffrerent company.
A big part of why I pressed the point was so that lessons could be learned to stop it happening again. I said as much many times in my replies, which are there for all to see. Some of the responses were shameful. It doesn't bring any pleasure at all to see others now being dragged through it again. At least this time people realise just how **** it is, and can start to see some of the issues. I'd still say a big part of the situation is to look at past events, admit where mistakes were made and learn from them. It doesn't need to be personal or a witch hunt. One mistake, and something else I've banged on about is not listening to as many people as possible, and letting a few push what they think best. We can all see where that's got us. Sadly, I think the airbrushes and abuse will be out again instead. We are where we are. We should use the lessons of the past to try to be stronger in the future.
The guy you seem to have a problem with DMD isn't even on this site is he ? You are talking like everybody knew everything about the seat moves and still did nothing
Having a different opinion and knowledge of some things to you, isn't personal, no matter how much you convince yourself otherwise. Discussion is how things can move forward, as is learning from past mistakes. It could help for the future.
I don't have a problem with anyone as such, more some events that occured. I didn't start the thread or post the comments on here. Some people seem keen to respond to what they think people mean, rather than what's posted and try to make it personal. That just stifles debate. We're in a **** position again. If there are things that can be learned, we can grow by learning from them.
I could go into detail on this, but it's been done to death and I can't be arsed. At the moment we have two away ends, the existing one and the new one in the West Upper. The reason there's two and the NE corner is not yet available for memberships, is because the SAG have not yet agreed to have the away fans in the West Upper. There's a SAG meeting late next month, at which this will be discussed, I'll be posting a thread nearer the time to gauge peoples opinions. There were a great many who thought the away fans should have been housed in the upper tier, after recent events, I expect there's rather less of them.
Unfair On this issue Dutch is, in my opinion, spot on As an evictee I made my views known, more on CI, but there was very little support from fellow City fans, and of course some were very supportive of the move, and may well have helped it happen Some realise they were wrong, some presumably don't ( that isn't aimed at you, I know you have said you weren't involved at all ) Like Dutch I get no pleasure from the fact that the same thing is being done to other fans
Yep think posters just see it as you or me and dont take the trouble to read it. I think its piss poor some fans thought they knew best, yet the Allams got all the grief for the move.
I've suggested consideration of moving away fans to parts of the upper West in the past. There are some issues with it from a variety of angles, but they can all be overcome if needed. One of those is clearly the fact home fans are already there. For me, away fans in the north, pushed to the north west corner is about the least painful option. That leaves home fans able to mix with each other at half time etc.
Done to death indeed,however,moving away fans ( again ffs) to the upper west would simply make the away support sound even louder,something the club does not need,especially when Sky turn up. Stick em in the lower south west,out of sight out of earshot. Were at home,not the opponents Mr. Allam.
We should ban away fans completely, that would make things easier...and of course those of a sensitive disposition would feel safer so it would become more family orientated...if families could afford to go
Maybe we're missing the cunning part of the scheme? It could be an experiment in finding out what will drive fans away, but still stay within league rules. If it works, it can be applied just to away fans, leaving more room for the hoards of home fans that would then be attracted. They could safely sit in any part of the ground. Genius.
