...and what when the Eurozone is functioning, and we are outside it? Of course we'd be in competition if we vote out. The difference if we stay in, is that we will be competing on terms that our competitors, the Eurozone, control. I don't mind you telling me I'm wrong, so long as you don't mind me telling you you're naive!
no Chaz, I didn't say that, the British Government said they were only doing the jobs the British didn't want to do. A lie, just like the lie only 15,000 would come over in a year
I agree all sides are trading on fear but one side is clearly trading on hope and the thin air of a ten year plan that just doesn't add up There are some clear facts here about trade deals and rules Only the UK exit twats can announce that they intend to invent new rules that 506 million people over the European states will accept Then of course you have to drill down on what the deals maybe for? You then have to ask who exactly will be in charge of the U.K. when business washes it's hands of the idiot UK government
Just as - if you go back and look - I didn't say that you mentioned waiters, builders and bar staff. I mentioned them in a comment that not all migrant workers become those workers. A little bit of thought into what you say I said would be useful, much as a little bit of thought about the issues would be useful for everyone.
The Eurozone will only function properly when there's a United States of Europe, with full political, economic and fiscal integration. Until then, we're safe from that scenario. And that won't happen because the Germans and French don't want it. So we're fine as we are. What you term naive, I read as practical. Semantics, I know, but there you go...
I'm not sure where you're getting your facts from, Chaz, but the Germans in particular do very much want fiscal integration in the Eurozone. The view is that another Greece-type crisis could occur without it. The mood in the Eurozone is to speed towards the full integration you describe - at the fastest possible pace. Quite a few Remainians recognise this and are saying, we'll remain for now, but we expect to have to come out in the next 10 years. This is why a REMAIN vote in June doesn't take anyone very far.
OK, understood. I don't want to misquote you or anyone else. I'm just trying to get the issues raised so we can see if any of them are actually solved by the vote, if it makes things worse or just different without being worse. I believe you're going to vote "Out". Am I correct? If that is so, would your primary reason be that the public has been lied to (as you say) about the fact that new EU migrants are only doing the jobs that the natives don't want to do? You are convinced that is not the case (and I don't intend to disagree with you - I think they are doing jobs that natives also want to do). Is it the fact itself that means you'll vote "Out" or the fact it was a lie?
I do live in Dorset these days. You're probably correct. They're mainly people aged 50+ with little exposure to other cultures - even European ones.
Agree, though I don't think the momentum within Europe is quite that strong. If the Brexit campaign was using this argument I'd be listening closely. I don't have a problem with further integration and it's necessary for the euro to work, but I can't see the UK joining in. We have this horrible Cameron designed half way house, forever on the periphery.
Germany's going to have to drag the others with it. There could be some delay. Agree about Cameron's uncomfortable compromise. Ultimately, we'll be out or in the Euro. There won't be a viable alternative. It is arguable I suppose that if we stay in, in June, and the Eurozone then moves away from the UK and Denmark, the Eurozone may be prepared to give more favourable leave options re the single market, if the UK and Denmark want away .
just too many people coming in full stop, burden on the NHS, housing, schools, transport, jobs, everything. Reason I left London, when you have 15 living in a 3 bedroom house something has to give, it was me. Interesting you are down in Dorset too, although I'm just inside Devon. You are right, the out vote has a lot of 50+ supporters (me) but not that Dorset folk have never met any other cultures. Half the population of Lyme for instance are ex city dwellers. I've noticed the NFU are backing the remain side, yet a lot of the local farmers here voted UKIP in the European MEP elections last year. Very interesting couple of months ahead, does surprise me the apathy by the young though, it's their future at stake and they should vote one way or the other. This vote really will affect them
Farmers seem really split by region. Some (for example in Northern Ireland) get half their income from the EU, would probably need a guarantee that these would be maintained post Brexit, others (presumably those down your way) hate the bureaucracy. Was surprised to learn that my 20 year old lad, who showed no interest in voting in the general or local elections and has no time for party political affiliations, is very keen to vote in the referendum and would like more of them. Have to confess I'll be passing up the opportunity to choose our local police and crime commissioner.
On the radio the other day a journalist from The Times was interviewed saying that it is becoming increasingly clear that the voters are becoming split along age lines, the over 50's in favour of leaving, with the younger generation 25 and under more likely to vote in, that leaves a huge gap that need convincing one way or t'other.......however he added it also depends on things like the weather on voting day as to whether or not the younger generation can be bothered to vote and that could mean that the Brexit happens almost by accident as the older generations will vote come what may......
this really is a issue the young should vote in, showing my age, but the 1975 in/out vote was the first I was eligible to vote in. I voted out then and am even more anti-EU today
I see the National Union of Students has elected a black Muslim woman president. Not gay or transgender though, I'm sure the press would have shared that. Judging by reports she will hardly be helpful in calming the feverish orgy of offence taking and censorship underway on university campuses. One day, long after I am dead, this news might be reported without reference to the persons race, religion or gender. Because we will all be grey-pink hermaphrodite atheists, hooray!
