Match Day Thread Norwich City v Liverpool

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Tony_Munky_Canary said:
Completely agree and anyone who thinks the captain's role in football has any great meaning nowadays I'm afraid is sadly mistaken. Yes, to a certain extent you do want your captain to be a guy is respected by the rest of the dressing room who can gee up the troops when the chips are down, but it really is nothing like the role of captain in cricket or even rugby, I'm sorry but it just isn't. I'd actually argue that at this level we should be looking to have eleven captains on the pitch, rather than looking to one player to take responsibility for everything, or the blame when things go wrong (which is pretty much what ILD is saying as far as I can see).
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It's not the same responsibility that you have in cricket or rugby, but you need one player who can convey the managers message and influence other players, to a degree a captain's role is important. I think the problem we have is since Holt has left we've seen nothing but weak leadership on the pitch, so a lot of people have forgotten what it's like to have a player who has those qualities.
 
Northamptonncfc said:
It's not the same responsibility that you have in cricket or rugby, but you need one player who can convey the managers message and influence other players, to a degree a captain's role is important. I think the problem we have is since Holt has left we've seen nothing but weak leadership on the pitch, so a lot of people have forgotten what it's like to have a player who has those qualities.
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Somebody mentioned Malky Mackay earlier in the thread. Classic example, vocal, demanding, got in where it hurts for the cause and chipped in with critical goals.
Play off semi vs Wolves, anybody? <ok>
That's why, after just one game for the club, I'm already penciling in Naismith to take over the armband.
 
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Cromercanary said:
Somebody mentioned Malky Mackay earlier in the thread. Classic example, vocal, demanding, got in where it hurts for the cause and chipped in with critical goals.
Play off semi vs Wolves, anybody? <ok>
That's why, after just one game for the club, I'm already penciling in Naismith to take over the armband.
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I need to see more of Naismith but I think he made a convincing case for that role, I liked that he identified that there is a lack of communication across the team, that impressed me as it's usually a catalogue of cliche's and excuses in post game interviews. I always thought Howson would get the captains armband someday, quality player but I don't think he has the personality or the self belief for that role.
 
Northamptonncfc said:
I always thought Howson would get the captains armband someday, quality player but I don't think he has the personality or the self belief for that role.
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I gather he was captain at Leeds, but so what. He's certainly not shown any overt 'leadership' qualities since he's been at Norwich.
For a top six club, crammed with global superstars. I agree it's maybe less important, but having read some good posts on here earlier about how the role of captain was diminishing in importance in football, I'd disagree.
At our level, or below, it can be quite easy for heads to drop when a soft goal is conceded - in which case, the whole team is immediately on the back foot. There is still a role, imo, for somebody to rally, galvanise, kick ass, whatever is required. I think RM at present is so preoccupied with the perceived :emoticon-0105-wink: flaws in his own game, that he can't possibly be expected to motivate and inspire others.
 
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Cromercanary said:
I gather he was captain at Leeds, but so what. He's certainly not shown any overt 'leadership' qualities since he's been at Norwich.
For a top six club, crammed with global superstars. I agree it's maybe less important, but having read some good posts on here earlier about how the role of captain was diminishing in importance in football, I'd disagree.
At our level, or below, it can be quite easy for heads to drop when a soft goal is conceded - in which case, the whole team is immediately on the back foot. There is still a role, imo, for somebody to rally, galvanise, kick ass, whatever is required. I think RM at present is so preoccupied with the perceived :emoticon-0105-wink: flaws in his own game, that he can't possibly be expected to motivate and inspire others.
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Never really thought RM is a good captain, in fairness he attempts to marshall players about but his always the player who is ball watching or not putting in the challenge, more a supervisor then a genuine leader, Bassong was a terrible captain absolutely lost the plot at times I remember.
 
IMO - Holty was the last 'captain' we had!!!! <ok>
Fir my two_penn'orth, I think we DO need a captain on the pitch who can lift flagging moral etc - especially after Saturday's debacle.
Agree Bassong was a terrible captain.
 
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Duncan Forbes epitomised the captains role for me, not s particularly great footballer, but a fantastic leader and communicator. They used to say he could be heard in Wroxham.
 
Northamptonncfc said:
I need to see more of Naismith but I think he made a convincing case for that role, I liked that he identified that there is a lack of communication across the team, that impressed me as it's usually a catalogue of cliche's and excuses in post game interviews. I always thought Howson would get the captains armband someday, quality player but I don't think he has the personality or the self belief for that role.
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Although I noticed it was Howson that tried to gee Martin up after the 4th goal.
 
I think you need leaders on the pitch, if you don't have a number of leaders on the pitch you in my book benefit enormously from an influencial captain. As others are saying since Holt I'm not sure we have had any great leaders and inspirers.
Whether it's a word in someone's ear, shouting and cajoling, or a display of magic, or grit and determination leaders are important. I think a player like Redmond in particular could really improve if he had someone guiding him on the pitch and encouraging him. I hope that Naismith could bring that. This is also why I think we generally play better with O'Neil in the side because I think he has a bit of leadership skills.
I would like to add that to be skipper should still be an honour and I would hope that players would still feel great pride to be bestowed with that role. The flip side to that would be that if a capt is not leading or playing well it could (not necessarily would) cause a collective negativity if the others begin to question his position as capt or in the team. (Not saying that has/is happening at NCFC) but we all know how fragile these precious footballers are, it don't take much to wobble them.

Bah!
 
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Some decent points being made abou the role of captain, and I agree that we've not had a real out and out 'leader' since Holty, and whilst I'm not saying he's a great captain on the pitch per se, I think it's a bit harsh the way people are writing off Martin's role and influence in the dressing room, he is more than capable of pretty inspirational things as well you know - or have you all conveniently forgotten how he drove back from Liverpool at midnight to witness the birth of his child earlier this season, to then drive back up again in the same day when he scored the goal that earned us a point at Anfield? Probably best if we forget that eh?
 
The problem is, Tony, that when supporters make up their minds about a player they will never see anything good or bad in him as the case maybe. At the moment Martin, Redmond and Whittaker are in the frame - usually unfairly - and if they really do have a poor game then all hell breaks loose. Others get away with it. I have looked twice at the goals again and Rudd's technique and decision making was deplorable but Rudd is one of the favoured few at the moment. If, on the other hand Ruddy had been guilty of staying on his line when the ball was high in the air 5 yards in front of him, slow to come off his line to deal with oncoming danger and sliding in feet first seemingly more determined not to get hurt rather than deal with the danger, he would have been slaughtered. I have been guilty myself over the years - I could never see anything good in Trevor Howard or Greg Downes. I always remember a player from years ago called Jimmy Blair. He had a good footballing brain and knew what he wanted to do but was too slow to catch a cold. Most of the supporters hated him and he got a lot of stick. One night he dribbled round 3 defenders and cracked in an unstoppable shot from 25 yards. Most of the crowd were stunned but the bloke behind me leapt to his feet and screamed something like ' you stupid f****** c*** Blair - you should have passed to ( I can't remember who it was ) - he was better placed. After that nothing has surprised me!!
 
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Yes 1950 - Rudd does seem to be absolved of all blame and I don't remember him actually making a save all game. Big call for AN when Spurs come to visit.
 
1950canary said:
The problem is, Tony, that when supporters make up their minds about a player they will never see anything good or bad in him as the case maybe. At the moment Martin, Redmond and Whittaker are in the frame - usually unfairly - and if they really do have a poor game then all hell breaks loose. Others get away with it. I have looked twice at the goals again and Rudd's technique and decision making was deplorable but Rudd is one of the favoured few at the moment. If, on the other hand Ruddy had been guilty of staying on his line when the ball was high in the air 5 yards in front of him, slow to come off his line to deal with oncoming danger and sliding in feet first seemingly more determined not to get hurt rather than deal with the danger, he would have been slaughtered. I have been guilty myself over the years - I could never see anything good in Trevor Howard or Greg Downes. I always remember a player from years ago called Jimmy Blair. He had a good footballing brain and knew what he wanted to do but was too slow to catch a cold. Most of the supporters hated him and he got a lot of stick. One night he dribbled round 3 defenders and cracked in an unstoppable shot from 25 yards. Most of the crowd were stunned but the bloke behind me leapt to his feet and screamed something like ' you stupid f****** c*** Blair - you should have passed to ( I can't remember who it was ) - he was better placed. After that nothing has surprised me!!
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Good points made here, I'm always surprised to hear the opinions of those who sit around me, such diverse likes and dislikes it makes you wonder who's watching who sometimes. I guess this forum echo's that. Redmond seems to be a common denominator at the moment!
 
Braveheart said:
Yes 1950 - Rudd does seem to be absolved of all blame and I don't remember him actually making a save all game. Big call for AN when Spurs come to visit.
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I don't think either keeper made a save, very odd as 9 goals went in.
It just shows the vagaries of the football supporter, a few weeks back Ruddy was the villain, all change now, he's wanted back and Rudd is being called out. Both got their pluses and minuses, i just fall into the keep Rudd in the team category.
 
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ilovedelia said:
I don't think either keeper made a save, very odd as 9 goals went in.
It just shows the vagaries of the football supporter, a few weeks back Ruddy was the villain, all change now, he's wanted back and Rudd is being called out. Both got their pluses and minuses, i just fall into the keep Rudd in the team category.
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As I said in an earlier post, I'm sure his choices when faced with a 1 on 1 will be scrutinised and worked on before 'Arry and Dele turn up next Tuesday!!!!
Mind you, he may have a more resolute defence in front of him as well. <doh>
 
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Tony_Munky_Canary said:
Some decent points being made about the role of captain, and I agree that we've not had a real out and out 'leader' since Holty, and whilst I'm not saying he's a great captain on the pitch per se, I think it's a bit harsh the way people are writing off Martin's role and influence in the dressing room, he is more than capable of pretty inspirational things as well you know
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How ironic that a day or so after our (very interesting, I thought) 'role of the captain' debate, that Steve Cook of MFW should publish this piece! <yikes>
I'm busily trying to fathom out, from the writing style, which of our contributors on here is a.k.a. Steve Cook :emoticon-0112-wonde <laugh>
http://norwichcity.myfootballwriter...rd-as-one-leader-floundered-another-emerged/?
 
Cromercanary said:
How ironic that a day or so after our (very interesting, I thought) 'role of the captain' debate, that Steve Cook of MFW should publish this piece! <yikes>
I'm busily trying to fathom out, from the writing style, which of our contributors on here is a.k.a. Steve Cook :emoticon-0112-wonde <laugh>
http://norwichcity.myfootballwriter...rd-as-one-leader-floundered-another-emerged/?
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I must admit, the timing of it does seem odd to say the least!!! Spot on article though and I feel we could well see a change by the time we get to the end of February.
 
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