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King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes

Discussion in 'Horse Racing' started by woolcombe-folly007, Jul 18, 2011.

  1. Ron

    Ron Well-Known Member
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    [video=youtube;4FS0aimp4Y0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FS0aimp4Y0[/video]
     
    #81
  2. Reebok

    Reebok YTS Mod
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    What a fabulous racehorse. Thanks for posting this Ron, brings memories flooding back :)
     
    #82
  3. Sir Barney Chuckles

    Sir Barney Chuckles Who Dares Wins

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    The ‘Guardian’ today referred to the race as a clash between ‘four aces and a joker’. The reasoning behind this being that whereas the 4 older horses are all Group 1 winners who had won over £6.4 million between them, Nathaniel in contrast hadn’t even run at the highest level and had secured prize money barely in excess of 6 figures. They also raised the curious point that both Lady Rothschild’s racing manager and old boy Gosden had failed to respond to one single media question re Nathaniel and the race. This they deemed to be ‘mysterious’.

    Despite this the ‘joker’ is the one that I think will oblige of the morrow.
     
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  4. Dexter

    Dexter Well-Known Member

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    You are obviously not familiar with Sheikh Mohammed's son,the favoured of his 21 off spring who has been deemed by his father to be the next undemocratically elected autocrat of his dads indebted state.

    He also has a string of 200 racehorses paid for by his father,well Abu Dhabi currently...little Joseph just gets the leg up the odd time on a Ballydoyle horse and,as Tom Segal opined is,with M Barzelona the jockey find of the last five years.

    O'Brien doesn't select the pilot and Magnier,Smith and Tabor don't do sentiment.

    Nepotism is not the issue re JO'B.
     
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  5. FulkesFestival40

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    Dexter - I seem to recall a Magnier offspring riding Rhinestone Cowboy a few times and he couldn't ride a three-wheeled bike! Given his height I would say JOB would not be a jockey at all if it was not for his dad, let alone riding top class horses. Segal must be mates with AOB to have spoken of JOB in the same breath as Barzelona, who could turn out to be the best French jockey in my (not brief) lifetime.
     
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  6. NassauBoard

    NassauBoard Well-Known Member

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    I agree completely.

    Dexter, you don't use a claimer on a Group 1 horse
     
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  7. Cyclonic

    Cyclonic Well Hung Member

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    And some say that you shouldn't put a woman on a G1 horse.
     
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  8. NassauBoard

    NassauBoard Well-Known Member

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    The difference is that Hayley Turner rode out her claim and rides at that level because of her previous efforts and not because of her name (or sex). I don't think young O'Brien should be riding in a Group 1 when he hasn't had the experience of the other stable jockeys. Lets not forget Hayley only got the ride because the stables other choices were not available.
     
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  9. Cyclonic

    Cyclonic Well Hung Member

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    To be frank Nass, I can't see him being a problem. Of course there is a chance that he might blow it, but I'd trust him. He's a G1 winner and seems to have a cool head. I think that if the horse gets beaten, it'll probably be on it's merits.
     
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  10. King Shergar

    King Shergar Well-Known Member

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    Whilst AOB may have chosen him because he is his son, can someone please highlight a bad ride Joseph O'Brien has given a horse. He gave Roderic Oconor a fantastic ride in the Irish Guineas. Dont have a go at the kid until he has actually done something wrong :biggrin:
     
    #90

  11. NassauBoard

    NassauBoard Well-Known Member

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    not see his ride on Apache at Royal Ascot? Found more trouble and got the horse unbalanced.
     
    #91
  12. kiyonemakibi

    kiyonemakibi Member

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    Jockey has poor ride shock!

    People calling this nepotism, sorry but that's a load of rubbish, and sounds like another excuse for O'Brien bashing.
     
    #92
  13. Cyclonic

    Cyclonic Well Hung Member

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    There isn't a rider on the planet who can't put in a shocker. J.O'B, being a young man, is probably more likely to make mistakes, but we see heaps of seasoned riders slated on a daily basis for their efforts. I think it unlikely that they leg up the lad because he's some one's son, especially in a million pound race.
     
    #93
  14. NassauBoard

    NassauBoard Well-Known Member

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    Which other trainer would put up a lad who has had less than a hundred winners as a jockey and only won one Group 1 race ahead of the jockey who has won fourteen Group 1 races (13 for the yard) and has ridden masses of winners?

    I can't see any rationale as to why you would use young O'Brien ahead of either Colm or Heffernan, especially as he is never going to be able to have a long career as a jockey because of his height and weight issues.


    btw I think Joseph is a very good young jockey and is a very likable chap but I find it amazing that they are willing to lose out on the masses of experience that Heffernan has to give the lad a chance in what is going to be a short career. I don't see how it can be anything other than because of his family name.
     
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  15. kiyonemakibi

    kiyonemakibi Member

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    You seriously believe they'd jeopardise the horse's chances of winning such a big race (especially when it's a horse where O'Brien would probably love to show up everyone who had written it off) just for the sake of putting the trainer's son on board? Maybe if this was a bog standard race or something but this is the King George and I seriously doubt they'd ever be that unprofessional or daft.
     
    #95
  16. NassauBoard

    NassauBoard Well-Known Member

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    kiyonemakibi who would you put on, Heffernan the 14 time Group 1 winner or young Joseph who has 1 Group 1 to his name.

    Perhaps this is the long term project that is in the offing, whereby AOB thinks the lad needs to get as much experience as possible in his jockey career as he sees it as an important thing for his future as a possible trainer for Coolmore?
     
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  17. FulkesFestival40

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    Can I just qualify what i just said. I stand by the nepotism charge and that there is no comparison between JOB and the young French lad.

    But of course many of racing's biggest names have benefited at the outset of their careers from a good dose of nepotism - Lester Piggott, Henry Cecil, Fred Winter, Richard Hannon, AOB himself, Ruby Walsh to name just a few. But it's rife everywhere (the Murdochs, Jock and JR Ewing, etc) so racing should not beat itself up about it. It's just life.

    JOB may well go on to be a top jockey but he will probably have to go over the jumps.
     
    #97
  18. Cyclonic

    Cyclonic Well Hung Member

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    I've just had a look at the apache run Nass. maybe you were a bit hard in the rider. Early on, the horse raced like a pig. Then on the corner copped a bed check. I have not seen the Stewards thinking on the scrimmage. Maybe it was his fault, I don't know, but if not, then he was very unlucky.

    Attheraces: "took keen hold, chased leaders, hampered and stumbled badly over 3f out, weakend and hung right over 2f out, not recover"
     
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  19. Dexter

    Dexter Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't agree more Nass and Fulke and he would be low on my list....but after the performances of SH and CO'D recently the owners have decided he is the best option..maybe they are reading too much into his winning ride in the I2000.

    I'll concede there is nepotism from the point of view that JO'B would not be riding for B'doyle if his pop was not the trainer but one could also argue his performances in the saddle have impressed the owners sufficiently to earn him the ride on merit.

    Either way,I can't see him being successful...WF for me.
     
    #99
  20. NassauBoard

    NassauBoard Well-Known Member

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    If Heff was on SNA he wouldn't have let them go such a slow pace. I thought it was a poor ride by Joseph on a horse who needs a proper pace and also to me he had the horse in a pocket for most of the race, he was never going to quicken past Nathaniel with his placement.

    Ryan Moore didn't do much better on Workforce by the way. Another who should perhaps have pushed the pace earlier in the race.
     
    #100

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