Off Topic Political Debate

Just for clarity. I have now activated account ignored for superhorns... and receive no notifications of his postings. If things change in the future and another poster says so I may reactivate. I would like to..... but does seem most unlikely.

 

As this is a political thread can we have grown up responses to the following question.

As Jeremy Corbyn sets out his personal position on war and security methods which seem at complete odds with his parliamentary colleagues and his party at large, is he bored already with the hassle of the job or genuinely thinks he can change peoples minds.

He does not seem like a normal politician desperate to hang onto power at all costs.

 

Interesting interview wit ha syrian refugee this morning. He was advocating that the migration process was too easy and too many false refugees were getting through. His words were along the lines of you (the west) need to perform more rigorous screening to protect both yourselves and us (referring to genuine refugees) from the false potentially terrorist migrants. This is just what I've been saying, we in Europe have a responsibility to protect the outer border of the whole or if that doesn't work reintroduce internal controls (even pre shenghen these were minimal though). This means building very large centralized holding camps close to the main points of entry with very effective screening capabilities and a steady stream of transport to return false refugees to points of origin in N Africa as well as an effective system to distribute the successful candidates to positively integrate rather than collect in isolated groups. David C has done exactly what I wanted done and increased the size of MI and added budget for elite fighting units. We really couldn't do more at the moment remaining true to our values....

 

Now that's exactly the sort of man to man "banter " I was referring to ...
And we are not desperate , merely occupying the moral high ground

 

Aberdeen i don't disagree with any of that.... however.... how and where can you locate camps for 100s of thousands of refugees? Big question.....

 

Nobody says its easy! Has to be in the South of Italy, Greece, Turkey, possibly even Tunisia. When I lived there it was a well organized country with brilliant health and education facilities, if funded it could well be the answer.

 

Anybody opening that link deserves every virus they get!

 

do Not open.... this message is on several threads across this site too..... I have reported ....

 

wow, this thread has got into more than a tin of worms!

 

It's actually quite interesting how the thread has developed. Very unfortunate that it's become open to people throwing personal slanders from both sides of the political divide with a great deal of intolerance thrown in for good measure. There's a tendency for humans to over react which I do for sure but do hold convistions regarding fundamental failed ideals. It's a very left wing socialist communist rrait to try to silence the opposition firstly by coercive means and finally by regulation. I wonder if we can find this type of global political behavior mirrored anywhere?

 

I have just read through a lot of this thread. Seems to me to be handbags at dawn mostly. Sure there are a few unnecessary insults but boy there are some strongly held opinions and beliefs - and often very well presented. On subjects such as religion and politics where ignorant people kill for their viewpoint the posters on here have made an awful lot of strong points and I have not seen a single swearword (perhaps they are prevented) and as I say the insults are mostly low key with some degree of baiting and banter. I would hate to see non football threads censored on here. (What else do we do on International Breaks)? After all the only people who contribute on threads such as this are those who choose to. I can well understand people avoiding this and other "off topic" threads - that is their right. My guess is though that the people who post here frequently have far more animated "debates" elsewhere so are not afraid of the odd unkind word. I congratulate all posters on this thread.

 

Brilliantly put sir , you are indeed a scholar !

 

Well reasoned.

These two last posts have restored my faith in democracy, some posters sense of humour is a little on the thin side to say the least.

 

Superhorns ..I can sense a loving bond developing between us ( yeah right )
I'm also fond of Corbyn and Red Ken ...sadly , I fully appreciate these decent men have little chance of winning over enough voters . So it looks like we are stuck with you devil worshipers and baby eaters ( humour ) for a long time yet . Ken really put his foot in it today ...all entertaining stuff & nonsense .

 

I'm really sad these guys won't still be around in 2020.

A coup is brewing!!

 

They definitely will not last to the next election .
Inside , I still consider myself a fairly traditional, tough working class socialist ( reality a growing flabby, ageing fart , with many middle class attributes ) .
I genuinely have always liked Ken Livingstone ,but did smile as he today , in part fell victim to "political correctness " .
I'm increasingly finding the Labour Party irritating , there are not enough folk like Skinner or Prescott around anymore ....but that's not to say I would ever give my vote to the more annoying Liberals or mealy mouth Tories .

 

I really find it amazing that anyone thought that Corbyn could lead a party that he had spent years disagreeing with. He might be at home in a left wind debating society, but that is very different to pulling together a group of politicians still smarting from rejection by those who voted. You can see already that he does not have the support of his shadow cabinet, let alone the bulk of the MPs sitting behind him. We have seen in Greece and again in Paris leaders coming to power who said they could go against the accepted manner to run a country, yet now have changed their method of operation. Maybe Corbyn was elected by default as the others standing against him were so nondescript. I thought he would be a Michael Foot and last until the next election was drawing near, but I am not sure he will even last that long now.

 

Corbyn has the support of the grass roots party, in fact overwhelming support at every level of the party apart from those in parliament - he sees his role as being that of 'taking back' the party into the hands of it's members. There has been a large difference between the opinions of the grass roots party and it's parliamentary elite for years and this has now boiled over. As you say, none of the other candidates offered anything new - just the same old Blairite mark 2 Toryism which has failed the party. Interesting slant on Greece Frenchie - was it Syriza that got the country into this mess ? Rather more that the Greeks turned to the Left because everything else had failed.

 

The Greeks turned to the left and were bitterly failed by well meaning inexperienced lightweight politicians. The country ended up with a worse deal than they had previously.

Corbin was elected in an untried new voting system because he was different from the rest of the candidates. It resulted in a leadership group which had very little in common with the parliamentary party and more importantly with traditional Labour voters.
There is no appetite in the UK to go back to confrontational politics of earlier decades.

If, as I suspect Labour has a bad showing in next May's elections, a candidate with Blairite views with be elected and the far left of the party will be purged.

The country needs a strong Labour party to stop the Tories from being too arrogant, but hopefully not too strong to be reelected in 2020.

 

The new untried system of voting in the Labour Party does not remove the fact that even if we confine the vote to those who were fully paid up members at the time Miliband became leader then Corbyn still comes out with a vote of over 50%. A takeover from the Blairite faction would not have the support of the grass roots party and so would be a dangerous step. How are you in a position of knowing what the traditional labour supporter of today thinks ? Please enlighten us. The country not only needs a strong opposition - it also needs one which is definably different to the government (which it would not have with a Blairite in power). It is also (like Celtic and Rangers) good for the Tories to have a strong Labour Party because without it they themselves would break up into different warring factions. According to more or less all opinion polls the public show a favourable response to all of Corbyns 'Left Wing' policies - including renationalization of rail and energy resources - where they have doubts ie. defence - these are not traditional left vs right issues. The other 'problem' with Corbyn is in his relationship to the media ie. the British public knows only what the media says about him but my guess is that the next 4 years will offer up more chances for direct contact with the public, which could help to change that. However the prospect of voting for someone who would (in effect) be asking the British Public to elect him as PM. up until the age of 77 is a difficult one.