I either go for a walk in the woods behind my house or, if I'm out somewhere near, I usually stop the car and get out. I'd often be out with the dog at 11:11:11. Whatever, I would spend a quiet time. No organisations, no pageantry. Just thought about the loss, the pain and the utter stupidity of it. Then I discovered this woman, a nurse, from Norfolk. So now I think of the bravery that can exist within the stupidity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edith_Cavell
A fantastic woman, Stan. More people need to know her incredible story of sacrifice and selflessness. Apparently not football related enough to be remembered at the KC by some though.
Perhaps you have it completely wrong, A football stadium like the KC on match day is the perfect venue, for me it puts into perspective several aspects of remembrance. Please do me a favour, on Saturday, look around at the crowd and visualise this one number 19,240. One day, in one battle, the number of men who lost their lives. You could look around the crowd again and you may also see those who have lost friends, sons, fathers and brothers whilst serving our country. You may not see those who are still trying to deal with the effects of service in such places as Northern Ireland, the Falklands, the Gulf and Afghanistan, but believe me they will be there. You may not feel that the place or time is right, but maybe the loss of a few moments of your time is not much of a price to pay.
In my opinion it achieves a lot doing it in a stadium. Us old folk can pay our respects and all the younger ones can learn to keep the memorial going. Armchairfan, IMHO you are just a ****ing muppet.
What I find odd about that is the fact the Germans executed her for treason. She was British and working in Belgium. How exactly is she committing treason against Germany?
Vince, Belgium was German occupied territory at the time and she was helping Allied forces injured I would think.
I know it was occupied. Belgium was still a sovereign country though, by law. And she wasn't even a Belgian. She didn't have German citizenship and no loyalty to Germany. Treason would be if she handed over British soldiers to the Germans. Brilliant woman.
I haven't read the full thing, but if she was working in Belgium then she'd presumably be a resident, so she could be guilty of treason against her country of residence without being a national. If the German's were the occupying force in Belgium, and she was working to overthrow them, then she was trying to overthrow the ruling power in the country she was living in even though they were an imposed power, so treason would be the correct charge for them to level at her. I think it's a bit like if you go on holiday to America and plot to blow up the White House you'd be guilty of terrorism, but if you were living there and got involved in the same plot the charge would be raised to treason. That's on a purely technical level, obviously she was right to do it, but it's one of those good examples of history being written by the victors. Had the Germans won she'd have been a traitor and that's it.
I'd say it's more like moving to America, Mexico invading, helping Americans move to Canada and then being executed by the Mexican army for treason against Mexico. Even though I'm British with British citizenship; not American, Mexican or even Canadian. Dumb as **** military law if you ask me, not to mention the fact Germany illegally invaded Belgium which was a neutral, sovereign state. People say it was a war that could've been avoided; yeah, avoided by the Balkan states and Germany. For once, it was a war Britain and France wasn't to blame for.
Totally agree. There is a program on Radio 4 about her on Wednesday and its premise is that :- "The German claim that Cavell was a spy was vehemently denied by the British government and she became a national heroine whose death inspired tens of thousands to join up for the war effort. But Dame Stella Rimington, the former director-general of MI5, has made a startling claim on the centenary of Cavell's death. In a BBC programme, she will assert that Cavell's network was indeed smuggling intelligence back to the Allies. Dame Stella delved into the military archives in Belgium, where she said evidence hitherto overlooked by historians proves the dual nature of Cavell's organisation".
I'd hazard a guess that, whatever any legal convention might mean, the German military had the power. de facto rather than de jure
Seems like it. Their violation of Belgian neutrality wasn't a just a justification for war, it was an obligation. I know it's a sensitive issue as millions of brave men (my great-great-grandfather and his brother included) and women died in the horrific conflict, but surely we couldn't have just let Germany walk all over Europe? WWI was as necessary as WWII in preventing Germany dominating Europe. Whatever your views on the British Empire are, Germany really was the bully of Europe in the early to mid 20th century. Britain could have maintained the ententes with Russia and France or forge an Anglo-German alliance as early as 1911; either way, war was inevitable. The Balkans was a hotbed of tension and the great empires of Europe were bound to come to blows. I don't think WWI could have been avoided.
Gutted I can't make it on Saturday, missing Boro game is bad enough, but been able to pay my respects to fellow serviceman and remember my fallen comrades at a place like the theKC is also a huge disappointment, particularly as one was a massive Hull City fan. I'll still get to Remembrance Day service though. Gone but not forgotten.
Although the law was aimed at Germans, there was a subclause that said it also covered foreigners that broke said law. The woman was a hero, not properly recognised and still mostly unheard of, which is a damn shame.
I wouldn't say she is mostly unheard of. Certainly people of my age have head of her. Anyone who had a grandparent who was in'the first world war would have as they remembered her and would have passed on their regard of her to their kids and grandkids. Her execution was a major event st the time. Another brave lady, one of the very brave ones who parachuted into occupied Europe during WW2 knowing the consequences of capture were torture and death, was Violet Szabo. Well worth reading about for any younger ones who don't know about her. These are some of the ones we are remembering as well as the ones who wore a uniform. And should continue to do so in my opinion.
Armchairfan has the correct name and I would suggest he stays at home in his bloody chair when they do the minutes silence. Also I feel really sorry for you. Do you ever get out on the 11th of November at 11am. If you don't then you will have missed cars and buses stopping, people just standing in quiet reflection in stations, shopping centres etc. You are making yourself to look quite ridiculous so I would stop responding and digging a bigger hole before you actually bury yourself.
