I'm probably being unfair but this England goal scoring record (one tonight and he becomes the highest ever) means little to me. Yes, it's a great achievement by any standard but I'm sure that these days England face a lot of teams of inferior quality that may not even have had a team in the past. It would be interesting, for example, see against which teams Rooney scored and against which teams which Bobby Charlton scored. Does anyone here have those facts available?
Charlton played against some crap too Ron: "In 1959 he scored a hat-trick as England demolished the US 8–1; and his second England hat-trick came in 1961 in an 8–0 thrashing of Mexico." From wiki here Goals per games ratio is an important one to consider - Charlton scored his 49 in 106 games. Rooney has his 49 in exactly 106 too, so no difference. Both spanning 13 years of internationals. They really are almost identical records.
Charlton was a midfielder though. I think the fact Rooneys got 1 World Cup goal against his name too makes you question how high he should rate against other England stars of days gone by. Definitely think old boy Lineker was far better for England than Rooney was, but of course Rooney has time on his side and will no doubt bag plenty more.
Cheers for that Oddy. Looked at the corresponding list for Rooney and I reckon there are a lot more less established teams in his list. Amazing silmilarities in the records.
Rooney is a top class player but sadly hasn't delivered it in the big tournaments since Euro 2004. The record is a good achievement for him and he has been pretty consistent bar the big games! I suspect he would swap for it all for a World Cup winners medal, but that won't be happening. If he could have kept his explosive pace and power he would have been amazing. Euro 2004 he frightened the daylights out of teams. He's a Man Utd great and one of England's most talented players, but part of me thinks what could have been. Take nothing away from the record though. I hope he goes and has a stormer in France at the Euros though! Good luck to him.
To be fair to the lad: 2004 EC broke a bone in his foot against Portugal QF after setting the tournament on fire 2006 WC metatersal injury prior to the championships, limited appearance in group stages and then Ronaldo got him sent off in the QF 2008 EC did not qualify 2010 WC yes, he was ****e along with the whole team - fecking awful the lot of them 2012 EC Injured prior to tournament, only played last group match against Ukraine, then came the shut-out against Italy and penalties 2014 WC see 2010 WC He has been very unlucky with injuries in 3 of the 6 major tournaments he could have played in. 1 of the other 6 England did not qualify and to be honest the last 3 major tournaments England just haven't been anywhere near. Confident he will go on to set a goalscoring record that won't be beat for a very long time, has done very well for England. Ref the comparison to Lineker - he played in MUCH better England teams (86 with Barnes 90 with Gazza, Waddle etc - no comparison to most of the dross that Rooney has played with in the last 10 years).
People in the office are moaning about this too, the fact is that its an incredible achievement for a player who isn't a pure goalscorer in the vein of Lineker or Owen, and it is pretty impressive playing in an England team that isn't competing with the best in the world (very often). He doesn't get the best supply in the world from players like Milner and Delph does he!! Now, I asked the chaps in the office a question, if you changed the two players times in football, would we have a different opinion of both? I would expect the press intrusion and the modern game to make a difference to Bobby Charlton, and I'd expect Rooney to flourish in the teams of the 60s. I think he is very harshly criticised on this one, he ain't a Messi or Ronaldo, but he is a quality goalscorer for a country that has lacked goalscorers in the period he has been playing.
Agree with the above post - an excellent achievement. His reputation probably suffers a bit because he was put up as one of the 3 best players in the world along with Messi and Ronaldo a few years back, which all the ManU fans I know certainly bought in to. A fine player who has done well in a very average team.
Totally agree Oddy and Nass, Bobby Charlton also scored against rubbish teams. Rooney isn't a Linekar but would you ever see Linekar making a tackle in the left back position ala Rooney. Rooney deserves the up most respect. Ron - I did it all yesterday the goals comparison but I've deleted it. The majority of Charlton's goals came in the home internationals. He also scored 5 against Luxembourg in 1962 qualification. He got 3 friendly hat-tricks in 8-1, 8-1 & 8-0 wins. As we weren't around to see Charlton's achievement they are somehow placed greater than Rooney's
It's an absolute fact Cityhull that a combination of the passing of time and selective memory failure adds plenty of stock to retired sportsmen and women.
very hard to fault anything in this post Nass. The other thing to add is that in an era where people criticise players for having no pride in playing for their country Rooney plays with the atitude of a support being plucked from the crowd - he absolutely loves it.
Bah humbug; Gerd Muller: For West Germany - 68 goals in 62 games)!!!! Bundesliga (FCBayern) - 365 goals in 427 games!!!! European Competitions (FC Bayern) - 66 goals in 74 games!!!! Nuff said.
I won't list Rooney's goals because I'm not out to be-little his achievements. I was just querying whether the record was against comparable teams. There is no doubt in my mind that there are a lot more countries competing now than there were in the 60s. I would actually rate Rooney better than Bobby Charlton as an all round footballer to be honest. I'm intrigued by this chap Kane. He doesn't appear to be a natural to me and he doesn't appear to have the work rate and passion of Rooney yet, put the ball to him anywhere near the goal and it seems to end up in the net. There were a couple of crosses that Rooney couldn't quite capitalise on and I was finding myself shouting at the telly to bring on Kane as we could have had 2 goals in the bag before he eventually came on. Didn't take him long to snap up a half chance once he came on. I think with him and Rooney playing as they did last night we could have a serious strike force. I'm not a fan of Milner but he displayed a good work rate with some good defensive work. please log in to view this image please log in to view this image
Germans don't count - they always win, totally unfair comparison (didn't Gerd score a couple of hat-tricks against Erzgebirge Aue???)
Oddy, what did I tell you many times, "Keep The Faith" (24-points from 8 games; can't do much better than that). Don't take any notice of this German spy Bayern Kenny, he's been brainwashed. MI6 are after him. Lock him up in the Tower, or better still in Landsberg with Uli-boy! Say, did you see that documentary on Kaiser Franz the other night? Thought it a bit fractured, but he was a truly great footballer. Not so great after retirement IMHO. Too many gaffes, e.g. "I think Herr Blatter's doing a good job", and more recently, "Mario Götze needs to grow up"..............Jeeeezus!
Is Uli-boy not now 'out' on day release? Shooorly not Landsberg; as I recall was not an infamous 'Austrian' banged up in this slammer? I agree with your comments about 'Kaiser Franz'. Should now keep his 'trap shut' particularly when his statements could unsettle the team or might directly contradict the coach or the current hierarchy.
I'm also one of the heretics who thinks Rooney a better all-round footballer than Charlton. Talking of Franz, he played Charlton off the park in 1966 final: Charlton was barely seen in the game.
Yep, BayernKenny, you are quite right, he is on day release. Hardly see anything of him nowadays. Franz was indeed some footballer, ranks right up there with the all-time greats, but I do agree, his comments can often be classed as outright gaffes?
