I was reading an article on the Guardian about Theo Walcott on Aresenal's trip around Asia, where he has apparently vocally requested that Wenger plays him as a frontman, after all that is where he began his career at Southampton, as a forward. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jul/15/theo-walcott-arsenal This got me thinking about our current pace man Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain who began his career in the Saints academy as a central midfielder but has been moved to the right wing to utilise his pace on right hand flank. Apparently he started off as a play-maker and I think it would be a clever move to try him out either further forward in the hole or play him more centrally. But the question is, should we be instantly pushing extremely quick players outwide? Certainly extra acceleration allows such players to get behind the the full back and produce a cross, for the traditional English striker to try and score from a header. Nevertheless wingers can be kept out of the game and if a multifaceted player has other talents then pace it seems somewhat foolish to use them as a one trick pony, with sole emphasis on the players pace, whilst ignoring the other subtleties of his game. English football is changing and it is common now for teams to not play with such a target man for winger to ply often leading them having to cut inside, so perhaps we should be maximising the potential of our pacey players elsewhere. Lionel Messi, for example is incredibly quick, especially with the ball at his feet. He plays through the middle of the pitch and is much more of a blight to the opposition when running at the heart of the defence. So my question is should we be trying to use our pace players more effectively and if their strengths are playing through the middle perhaps it is time for a bit of a rethink.
I don't believe Messi is that quick, just intelligent. He's certainly athletic, but he knows when to accelerate and when to keep a steady speed. He's also the best player to have the ball at his feet while running which is more control than speed. Chamberlain has no where near that sort of dribbling or ball control. Played centrally in an attacking position, his pace would mean nothing. He would constantly lose the ball.
Good thinking batman - we are all talking oon the forum about a need for a bit of pace in our strikers and need to buy one it. Maybe we already have one in our midst as he can certainly finish as well as most strikers so lets look for a wid right midfielder instead and move AOC inside as he would terrify most centre halfs to death!
Depends on the personel you already have and the system or style of football you play.For me Ricky and Barney not only score a good quota they create plenty and Ricky in particular has good touch and positional nouse this has come with experience and he has the look of what you would call a seasoned pro.But in his early years at Rochdale i beleive whe was played in mid field which has probably benifited his overall play now.For me at the moment AOC looks a natural wide man like his Dad pace power and good delivery and the way we are at the moment that would benifit the team. This does not mean he has to be glued to the touchline and should not deter him from using his initative to move around the pitch when he feels its right. Its no disgrace to have to play in the wide areas and look at the impact Bale has made being used wide left at Spurs weaknesses in opposition can often be exploited with pace and often its impossible to defend. I sure in time Alex will be given more responsibility in other areas but for me i want the excitment of seeing him destroying the full backs of the championship andlearning the game at what will be a step up for alot of our lads why the hurry to create a playmaker weve already got Adam
Yes Chamberlain is a CM, he has played there this season in a three and has done very well, like against utd. The reason he has been played out wide is the fact that he can do a very good job there, as well as the more space he has. At this point of his career he is not ready to occupy a CM position in a two man midfield.
Exploiting the strengths of individual players and subsequently the weaknesses of opposition players is how managers earn their crust. Something as simple as moving a real speedster into the centre of an attack can create a huge change in the way the team go about their business. When Theo was up front for us, the quick ball up to him was laid back quickly, he span and ran for the ball back over the top and nobody could catch him, including the supporting players. This left him on his own. When a winger gets a head of steam up, he's usually going to be looking to cut it back to those supporting players trying to keep up through the middle, bringing more people into the game and, in theory, improving your chances of a goal. Most teams put pace out wide because of this. How many teams have used the speedster through the middle in recent years? Back when Torres was in form, Liverpool used that approach to great effect. If you've got a player who is that quick and a quality finisher, it does make your point a very valid one. Why wouldn'y you want AOC to have three or four one on ones every game?
By having pacey wing men you can create gaps in defences a lot easier. It does depend on what set up you are playing against but in most cases fast wing men are used to prevent the full backs over lapping so much. Often the opposition cannot afford to play either a full game marker or someone just standing off the player as this will leave weaknesses in other areas. The wing men come into their own when the ball is played in behind their marker as he scootes off down the line it usually means a second player has to come over and a third filling in the gap behind, which creates gaps and weaknesses to be exploited.
At the moment Nigel Adkins is utilising Alex Chamberlain where he believes he has most influence in the team. Being at such a young age he plays where he is told, usually on the right wing. At the beginning of the season when Lallana and Puncheon were the "wide " players they would interchange seamlessly through the game. This comes with experience of being able to read the game. At the moment he is usually played in one position, wide right. Sometimes he comes out and plays wide left in the second half. Changing position through the game comes with experience. All you have to do is look at Lambert for this. First season here he was an out and out striker, the season just finished he would pop up anywhere wide right or wide left to find space. At the end of the day it is about experience and inevitably Chamberlain will be moved around as he has more experience
I don't think that pace is confined to the wing, it's just that to play on the wings, pace is a pre-requisite, so managers will put the quicker players in that position. Saints have played against opposition that have tended to park the bus the last few seasons. We haven't had to play a counter-attacking style, where pace through the centre is more productive.
Hi guys, thanks for the comments. It was really just my musings because I do think English teams put an over emphasis on pace and strength. I just think though that the mentality of too many coaches is to put pacey players outwide and ignore their other traits; interestingly Wenger also did this with Walcott but moved Henry the other way where he was far more effective. Oxlade-Chamberlain has a talent for distributing the ball from the middle of the pitch which we do not make use of if he is on the wing. Obviously the argument against this is that we have lots of central midfielders. However I wonder if we could play a 3-2-1 with Lambert or Guly at the spear and Lallana and Chamberlain behind. This would create width, but teams such as Barcelona don't use wingers either and they do rather well!
The fact that Chamerlain scored 10 goals last season shows he was a demon cutting into the middle of the park
This is where the use of Guly in the side can be a major bonus. He is able to rotate with Lallana & Chamberlain to allow us to try different things. As for AOC upfront, i'm not sure I would want him with his back to goal or trying to win headers against big burly centre backs
You say that, but it isn't like Chamberlain is a scrawny fella. He definitely has the build of a centre mid.
At Bristol City we have had some very fast wingers, as you remember Ivan outran Southampton 2 seasons ago.... anyway years ago we had Terry cooper as manager who had converted from a winger to a great fullback, at that time we had a young Keith Curle, bought from Torquay for £5000 as a winger, what was a shame he had the speed of Tony Daily but the skill of Arthur Daily, Terry Cooper changed this and put Keith Curle at centreback and the rest is history, not many strikers outran Keith Curle!
Some of the best wingers around have had naff all pace. Beckham couldn't outrun my granny, Messi is very nimble but wouldn't win a sprint against a lot of players, Luis Figo was always great on the wing too, etc etc, then at our level (which is nowhere near that of the players mentioned) Lallana has little pace but is one of the best wingers (though arguably better in the middle) in England outside of the Premiership.. But these days it's become natural to react to players who are a bit naff but are lightning quick by ramming them on the wing, like Ivan Sproule who was mentioned earlier, to a level Forte whose work rate and extreme pace cause defenders nightmares and can cause goals through unpredictability. At junior level it is an automatic response to go "Oh you're quick, get wide" which has infected every level of the game to the point where it doesn't matter if you have other skills lending themselves more to other areas of the pitch, if you're a sprinter you're out wide, and if you've got a great finish you might get to go up front. The "pace = winger" mindset has become a default that needs to be stopped.
But isn't that just the point, in English football you are quickly stereotyped and categorised. Xavi and Iniesta are both fairly small, although that does not mean they are not effective through the middle. One player who has recently emerged is Liverpool's Jay Spearing. He is quite small yet his passing is very good but only recently has he been given the chance. Too many players are overlooked because they do not fill the usual British build of fast and strong and this inflexibility is one reason English football suffers, the lack of imagination.
That was a Rafa thing I think. Look at all the younger players that Dalglish played last season. Kelly, Flanagan, Robinson, Spearing etc etc. He even stuck Kelly at RB despite being a naturalised CB, and look at the job he did. Now he's being touted as a potential England player. Could be that with British managers that we would be more inclined to play younger English talent...
You say that Conman but it is the continental European managers that value technique more, so you would think that they would be more likely to pick them. Personally I never really liked Benitez's style and I think the reason such players did not get picked was that he was afraid to risk them, contrasting with Wenger for example. Daglish had the opportunity to play these kids as expectations were a lot lower, whereas usually people are scared of taking the risk, as young players will make some mistakes whilst learning.
There is something in what you say....OROW......There does not seem to be the turnover in continental managers as there is in England. That is an English disease....and you are right English managers are frightened to take a chance unless they have no other choice. That is how a lot of players especially on the small side made it. They took their chance when they were given half a chance!!! Locally as an example Kevin Phillips was let go because he was deemed too small. Think of all the players that made it in the big time even though they were small. Gordon Strachan, Kevin Keegan, Kenny Dalglish just to name a few. There are many ,many more, but maybe not so many this day and age!!
