Colk, as strange as it may seem I agree with you honestly. I guess what I was getting at was that it is not good Britain changing its fundamental ideology if it is completely out of sink with the rest of the world, otherwise we end up being a European version of North Korea. If you have had the misfortune to read my posts over time you will see that I am the first to complain about the dumbing down of society, the reliance on fast food, sh*t television and fascile reporting in the press and the media. On that nbasis "That is how the World is" I did not say that I wish it would change but God knows how you go about it. Just for a starter, let us say that we scrap capitalism. That would not bother me as I believe it is as bankrupt a system as communism, but what would you do about the stock market? and more to the personal side of things your pension pot which is invested in these institutions. It is at that point that you soon conclude that we are stuck to a degree and then if you have a Corbyn type of leadership you are never going to carry enough seats to implement any change. I hope this made sense.
I'd be interested to see physical tangible proof of your claim there because everything I've seen suggests that new membership is fully vetted and according to stats I've seen is largely 16-25 year old who have previously not engaged with the political process because there was not a party to get behind (previously many were libdem voters too but that's not an option now). Aside from Mann bitching about it every other thing I've seen says that these extra members are actually legitimate. As I said before he's not a bloody extremist either. Fact is there's no option presently for a party any further left than right centre. Toryscum right wing, current labour party are right of centre too. I'll put money on you not having any proof to back up your claim
Furthermore this extreme left, party in the wilderness, split labour, no votes etc is bullshit peddled by a scared right wing biased rampant capitalism. There's no proof of any of it just bullshit made up by media running scared of a genuinely likeable guy. I saw the night bus post, what a guy! When you have MPs getting chauffeur driven 500 yards ffs
http://www.independent.co.uk/video/?videoid=4369574673001 To be honest he doesn't have a lot of competition either, the other three are amongst the wettest bunch of farts you could assemble. Corbyn tells is straight and how it is, sadly that's the reason I fear for him, the good guys don't seem to get anywhere in politics anymore, and some of them - John Smith, Robin Cook and Charles Kennedy I'm thinking of here - don't even get to sixty. The system is too far corrupt for an honest guy like him to be able to make a change, the engagement of the youth and disillusioned voters is fantastic, I just think he's going to encounter too many obstacles via the media and right-wing smear campaigns for him ever to get his message properly heard and understood by the masses.
I'm hoping that should he win & the media not put his message out that the huge numbers of youth supporters will show the mainstream media their time is done by commanding social media, YouTube, AMA's on websites like netmums for example. Be great to see the Murdoch press castrated
Dream on. I have been working for Labour in every election since '64. Whenever we move left we lose heavily. Michael Foot was a love genuine old gentleman but not of this world. Under Blair many things improved the NHS in particular. Minimum wage and tax credits too, now Dave is dismantling it all.
Except this time on the back of Corbyn ppl are flocking to join the party so it's NOT the same as before. We're in the middle of a crisis caused by austerity and a LOT of ppl have had enough with Labour being against austerity instead of saying we're just not quite as nasty as the Tories. That was effectively the message in May that was why you lost. Instead of being the least worse option you need to have some decent alternatives to austerity. Have you seen the turnouts for Corbyn's hustings? They've had to lock ppl out because venues are full!! Does that not suggest this time people want an alternative worth a vote??? I'm still waiting for evidence that the votes for Corbyn are from Tories or communists.
Sorry to say it Cruyff but you are out of touch with young victimized potential voters and union members not to mention single parents with more than 2 kids and families missing tax credits now. You are a white man living in a rural village who owns his own home and is comfortable , in other words a Tory voter in any other instance . In your village hall you are a man of principle but that counts for nothing in this dog eat dog them against us times my friend. There are potentially more voters on one London estate than your entire constituency , Blaire is a war criminal and the Chilcot report has been kept back for far too long . His/your labour are not to be trusted . Corbyn is probably on a hiding to nothing but it sure beats backing those other grey faced out of touch rent a politicians , most of which didn't put up a struggle against the latest **** the poor Osbourne budget.
Don't get me wrong, I would support a Corbyn leadership if I thought it would win a General Election. All the evidence though is that the people you speak of at his hustings meetings are activists and have an interest in politics. What I find noteworthy today when compared with my own youth is just how small this group is. I very much doubt that 5% of the population has any interest in politics. I know your contention is that a radical left party would change this, I just disagree. To begin with Tim Farron will move the LD's significantly leftwards and a Corbyn success will see an SDP style peeling off of the Blairites. Labour would gain maybe 5% from the left but lose 10% on the right,leaving Labour with a sub 200 representation in parliament for the first time in 80 years. Michael Foot secured 27% of the vote in 1983, just 2% ahead of the Libs.
What is it with this radical left Bollocks? There's nothing radical about it, same with extremist, rebel etc all bullshit negative labels by ridiculous journalists, it'd be nice if we could cut the crap. It's not just you its the media punting it about. A lot of Corbyns policies are also held by the Green party yet I didn't see them demonised as the radical left extremists before May. As I said before because he is left does not equate the whole party lurching that way. He's said he wants his rivals in his shadow cabinet & that he accepts others pov too. I predict that the party would end up centre left under him which is exactly where it was in 97 when Blair won. If concessions are made (and they will be) there's no reason for a party split. It may take time to sort out the position but I've no doubt it. I think you should look at the public opinion polls they aren't showing a problem with Corbyn & the public. OK it's opinion polls but it's interesting. As for the Hustings I'm sure there is a political angle but again there has been research into the demographic attending & many are simply NOT political activists it's fairly obvious this is the case when they book a venue for the number of local party and they then have had to lock people out, unless people are lying about their demographics when asked which could be the case. Look Labour just fought an election under the vote for us we're not quite as bad as the Tories and they LOST. Something else needs to be tried it's no good continuing as red tories.
I'll just add I haven't voted labour since 97 Corbyn would bring me back AND discussing with friends & family they all feel the same way more or less many of these have never voted labour at all
Hopefully the Labour Party tears itself apart and ends up replaced by other parties as the opposition on the left. No idea how any young people can vote for the Labour Party. (Not that the Tories are any better).
If Corbyn wins I will give up. Not because I think he is bad,or nasty or even his policies are too left wing. It's just that I know all the work would be wasted once the Tory media portrayed him as a commie.
One example . Corbyn wants to bring things like trains back under government control. I checked the fair for an adult and 3 kids aged between 5 and 10 return from Liverpool st to Norwich and it is £265.00 leaving 8am. We travelled to Spain for less than £200 that price is scandalous. Public money gets pumped into these companies and we get shafted to give the share holders a profit. This is capitalism .
Wow. That's some serious conviction. Labour finally gets a leader who actually has socialist views and you give up? It's fear of the Tory media machine that has gotten us into this position. It truly amazes me that you can call yourself a labour supporter and not want Corbyn in! He is the embodiment of socialist views, which isn't a bad thing. Infact it's very much in vogue.
Well I've done half a century. Time for those who believe that he can win to take up the baton and pound the pavements. If he wins I will be the first to admit I was wrong. But don't blame me when he gets wiped out.
I probably would yes. But only because I couldn't live with myself if I didn't. I might vote LD depending on where I lived as an anti Tory tactical vote. My only proviso is this: JC has seemed to endorse unrestricted immigration that would really open a can of worms. However if that was the case I don't suppose Labour would win 100 seats anyway.
