James McLean scum or dead right

It're pretty ****ty to see Hitler committing genocide and threatening to take over Europe and only think "yeah but how can we benefit from this?"

 

Yeh bcos we (the UK and western world generally) dont continue to that. Dont be so naive

 

Ireland sent their condolences to Germany after Hitler killed himself.

 

I'm guessing you've read about the Black&Tan regiment of criminals sent over to Ireland during the first world war and the murder and rape they bestowed in the name of Britain in Ireland at the time.

When the 2nd world war broke out 23 years later and what "Britain" did was still fresh in the mind.

But my first post was just to fill in the blanks and not start or have a row about it, what's done is done and what's won is won and the world moves on.

 

Page, as I said, we have stains on our history. But that's got **** all to do with Ireland staying neutral. UK relationship with Ireland shouldn't have effected Ireland's decision to enter the war. It was a war unlike anything else, had we had lost you lot would have been ****ed royally. Back on topic, I think to make a big deal over not wearing a poppy is to do a disservice to young men who gave their lives and had more courage than a man like McLean

 

firs toff he's from derry correct?

if he were from dublin i'd say he's a total prick.

Anyone who's from an area directly affect can have a hard time getting past what they see as injustice and repression. However.... while you have to say ok he is standing up in public showing his beliefs and that has to be respected he's also not adverse to taking the sterling wages he's getting nor living in england doing it so for me he should grow up just a little bit.

that picture looks to me like the team all tured towards a flag rather than standing in the usual parade.

that requires actual thought and organisation and really as a deliberate gesture he should have stated his objections then and it should not have occurred as they have more than one or two nationalities these days and to ask any others to do it is also wrong.

also is this pic old or has this just happened or what?

 

The poppy remembers British army personnel that died in conflicts around the world, including Ireland. Soldiers who killed unarmed Irish civilians could possibly be some of the people remembered under the Poppy. For all we know someone in his family was killed by one of these people hence his reasons for not wearing a poppy.

To be honest I think even people in the British army who died fighting the Nazis would be disgusted that they are being grouped in with soldiers who fought in Ireland (killing civilians) & illegal wars like Iraq.

 

It's fresh from the early hours of this morning. It's from WBA tour in America.

 

P.S. saying the irish didnt fight is quite a mistruth. Have a look how many Irish died in both world wars fighting for britain where they were little more than cannon fodder.

Im sure a simple google search will tell all

 

It's not the first time he's done it and it won't be the latest. He explained his reasons previously too. Not sure why it must be dragged up each time it happens...

 

Wba had who playing in the USA and why did they decide to turn towards the flags?

Did the US team do do and sing stars and stripes?

Any context to the non standad approach?

 

Blair maine second in command of the SAS for example......

In the end as I said he has his own reasons not related to wwii. He's from an area and has a perspective form by that and unfortunately for him has failed to learn from his time at Sunderland where the real world treated him well that there's no ores and this attitude has lead him to lessen his own career and cause himself issues.

In short coming from an area where that attitude has been taught to him just shows how hard it is to get rid of bad attitudes.

Just like how other engrained attitudes are hard to get rid of.

His manager bought him this summer and this sort of **** should not have been an issue at all. None of them should be turning to a flag. If mcclain had an issue he should have said it when they were arranging this and if he did the clubs an idiot for not cutting it off.

 

De Valera sent his condolences...one man...not "Ireland"...

 

Nobody saw Hitler committing genocide till it was all over, so to suggest that the Irish ducked out is pretty lame, and not ****ty at all imo...and as Hash says, the ranks of the British army in both wars were quite full of Irish soldiers...albeit misguided..but hey....

 

we were ****ed royally way before WWII mate....

 

Sorry for hogging the board, you won't see me again for a few months....

 

The majority of us in NI don't want anything to be 'given back' pal... and what does that even mean anyway? We don't feel Irish... who would we 'give back' to? I would say I'm about as British as you are Irish

James McClean debate is tired now...

What he typifies is the politicization of the poppy in NI.

What the poppy is meant to mean = 'never again'

What republicans associate it with = British imperialism

In 2015 any responsible nationalist would wear or acknowledge the poppy - it's called 'moving on'. After all, it also commemorates Irish war dead from WW1 - a complete tragedy considering they were fighting for home rule - true sacrifice.

James McClean has every right not to sing the anthem. I attend all NI home games and I don't sing it. I don't think the Queen (or royals at all) represents me despite being British.

What is so irritating about McClean is that he actively takes every opportunity to be directly disrespectful of British culture. He could passively resist - yet he makes a big deal, stands the opposite way instead of not singing etc. Of course he has every right to do so but he should expect criticism whether he deserves it or not.

EDIT: Must be hard for the a lot of you to imagine the depth of feeling here... it's all about where you grew up. Most people in NI are modern, forward thinking and shorn of the past... People like James McClean wear their 'Bogside, L/Derry' etc roots like it's their entire identity. No real progress in NI while this mentality (on both sides) remains.

EDIT II: Actually what's more disappointing about it is McClean is a big influence on lots of kids... look on twitter... he's being made a folk hero or pantomime villianfor a new embittered, sectarian generation... cliche yes but sport can bring people together! Look at Paddy McCourt loved by Celtic and NI fans alike... Ulster Rugby fans adore Tommy Bowe...

 

you've no idea how refreshing an outside view is... you've completely nailed it.

It won't even be his experience... it'll be his community's perceived experience before he was born.

Loyalists and republicans alike... both stains on NI (a great place).

 

interesting views.

I agree. while the mentality persists real progress is difficult. it is there for all to see. I am willing to bet no matter what they say about it in south africa the same exists too.

I met a guy about oh 10 years ago while skydiving who was an electrician form south africa.. he was saying he was not welcome there and then theres the guy who worked security at our place.. he was ****ing scary and i had discussion with him on autoCAd.. he was designing his own site. I'm convinced to this day he was packing a gun when at the desk.

Then theres pistorios....

This kind of them v us feeling is not going to go away. I reckon any time soon on either side.

he's really hurt his own career i think more than anything else but i'm sure as a hero in his own area he'll be well looked after for life when he retires.

 

That's the problem... how do you solve it...

Politics in NI are basically 'them v us' - like I really like Sinn Fein's socialist policies but would never vote for them (1) their nationalism (2) their past (3) their continual republican narrative on the past (4) they employ murderers and ex (hmm) terrorists... and people on the other side would never vote DUP.

Integrated education? Maybe...

NI is a very strange place... Nationalists use culture as a weapon - Gaelic, Irish language etc whilst Loyalists seem to be losing theirs and spilling over into pure violence and idiocy.

Maybe we never will sort it... but I'd rather be in a well looked after divided society than a **** poor United Ireland ... who but the UK can afford us!

Think the general rule is republicans forget the benefits of the UK whilst loyalists spurn them... the most republican and loyalist areas are historically the most dependant on welfare etc... we get a lot in the way of education, infrastructure, security... why change for the colour of a flag?