Match Day Thread Blackburn v Liverpool FA CUP

Nice twist

No, my point was, his one true chance in the side happened during a title challenge and he didn't very little if anything wrong.

 

course he didn't he even managed a goal!

I said not league 1... i said average so an average player did nothing wrong... good on him.

I call allen average too. I say theres nothing WRONG with average.

in it's place.

 

It seems going by what you have written here that you think(please correct if wrong) that compared to what Rodgers inherited;

GK - Worse
Defence - Worse
Midfield - Slight improvement
Forwards - Same, leaning towards worse?

So all in all, its not great considering the money spent? It also has to be said that its very difficult to judge the squad he inherited to some extent because Dalglish himself inherited a dogs dinner too, and was largely praised in the early days for the work he did on his own overhaul. Dalglish improved the squad, but there was a lot of work still to do for sure. I am not sure if BR has continued that trajectory or not, especially for the money spent?

 

Good summary!

 

He scored against Spurs

 

again... i said....

of course he didn't do anyhting wrong.... FULL STOP. he even managed a goal.

that missing full stop means you didn't get what i was saying which was to give the big eared joe allen wannabe some credit!

 

that missing full stop changed the meaning of the sentence

 

I'd say

GK worse yes
Defence, a bit better in depth, carragehr retired
Midifeld is a bit better
Forwards: worse seeing suarez left. all his buys have been really poor but the reality is everyone who was there would have to leave and were past it too... so... he faield to replace squarez in any meaningful way. Last year i wouldh ave said improved but sturrdige is made of glass

Yes dalglish inhertited a dogs dinner, roy hodgson in fairness to the guy inherited a mess... Rafa presided over his own teams demise via bad managament, corner cutting and rank buys like keane and aquilani.

I think overall dalgish and comolli's time was a mixed bag too. I think we have a big enough squad to complete and are doing so respectibly for 5th place etc etc.

but to get any higher a step change in purchases is needed

And yes for the money respectable is a bit much.. results themselves are respectable in an era of 200k per week and mega buys where city and cheslea are BUT not respectable for the money spent. for the money spent consistently puts us above arsneal and we are not near them in quality.

 

According to the LFCHistory site, Rodgers has a net spend of roughly £80million.
For that we've had Sturridge, Coutinho, Can, Sakho, Mignolet all of whom are successes to varying degree.
Rodgers- and we - rightly imo, expected more from Allen, Lovren, Markovic, Lallana and perhaps Moreno and Manquillo. If, like say Henderson, some of these come good in the future despite inauspicious starts then although it's not brilliant, it's not desperately bad either.
Add to that Ilori, and Origi then given time perhaps his signings won't seem an unmitigated disaster.

 

because we all know if we had another full back instead of Flanagan that we'd have only conceded 20 goals instead of 50

He was by far the best full back at the club last year and would have been regular starter this season at RB of he wasn't injured.

You ou can't make a sarcy comment about how no credit can go to the other 10, when you've been saying Suarez carried us to 2nd, in effect not giving any credit to anyone else

 

31 goals in 33 games v Flanagan


Sure.....

 

I think again its how you want to look at things, not saying you are wrong by the way, just saying from which perspective you choose to view things makes a big difference? For example if you look at it in some context;

Rafa - net spend 69.45m
Kenny - net spend 32.18m
BR - net spend 82.4m

Now as you say, we may make money from some of his purchases, Coutinho and Origi spring to mind, the others I am not so sure. Also BR's figures are heavily distorted by the Suarez transfer, as are Kenny's to some extent by the Torres sale. Looking at the figures in isolation, what Rafa did on those resources shines bright, Kenny did very well considering the mess he inherited and 2 cup finals and a very unlucky league season.

 

Ok, I would probably say that is mostly how I see it, except I would say the defence is better squad wise, but worse in terms of first eleven? So, all in all, not great really, and for a 48m net spend on the defence you would be forgiven for hoping for a vast improvement? I would also jump to the defence of Rafa, the guy did a fantastic job and you have to qualify the squad he left by saying that we all know he was trying to keep the first eleven competitive in Europe and domestically, whilst playing fantasy football manager!!

 

RE; Flanno... Was he or was he not the best FB at the club last season? This season as seen Mankiller and Moreno arrive, have they done anything to suggest they are better?

RE; Suarez... you say he carried us to the league, what if the other eleven hadn't been on the pitch then?

As Biscan rightly said, you can't say "so no credit can go to the other 10 player son the pitch while or defence leaked goals left and right then" in a sarcastic response but claim Suarez carried us.

Flanno deserves a damn site more respect that what people give him. He was basically thrown on the scrap heap and told by Brod to find a new club. He didn't, he stuck around, worked hard and fought for a place in the team, AND WON! Once in the team, not only did in not do anything wrong or let anyone down, he was praised up and down the country by pundits, players and fans of both Liverpool and other clubs. He also made it into the England team. But no, he's had injury problems so he's not been involved during a **** season and therefore he is ****.

Brod probably #luckedout with Flanno last season too

 

Fair enough. We could talk this through forever, but the only way we'll know is to wait and see. I just think that with the points I made above, we need to give it another season at least before we can really judge his performance in the transfer market.
Of course, if he doesn't, or can't spend big in the coming window, then people are going to be on his back again. However, I've said before that I believe his failure to land the big names that would satisfy many is as much due to the club's inability to bring in the players as his ability to identify them.
Also, we should be careful what we wish for- how many were hopping mad that we didn't do enough to get Falcao, for instance?
Imagine the stink now if we'd paid the asking price.

 

I think there is one main distinct difference between the teams Rafa, Hodgson and Kenny had to what Brod's now got; a top quality star player.

Rafa bought Alonso, Mascherano and Torres, plus inherited Carragher, Hyypia and Gerrard, that's a fantastic core right there.

Hodgson inherited Mascherano, Torres, Gerrard and a ageing Carragher. No stars added.

Kenny inherited Torres, Gerrard and a ageing Carragher. He added Suarez.

Brod inherited Suarez. As he added a star? Coutinho is doing his best but he's not there yet. Sterling could one day become a star but he's still got a lot to learn.

This is the first team in a long time that hasn't contained a top top player, that star playing that will drag us forward.

 

Yes I agree, and would be better done over ten beers and some single malt than over a message board!! I fully agree that in a lot of ways BR will either be judged when he leaves, or if he does manage to win big prizes. The FSG model whilst great for sustainability is not so great for competing with the bigger clubs, and only has a chance of working if the manager has a real eye for talent and can bring on and develop players making them world class, all whilst done without wasting a ton of money on big transfers, a tough gig, and one I am not sure BR is up to!

 

Yes, I think there is merit in what you say. However, the key word in there is 'bought', Rafa bought in top quality for the most part, Kenny not so much, and lets be honest, the Torres he inherited was far from a star at that point!

You also appear to have instantly contradicted yourself? You posted to MITO that a star needs the other ten players, so diminishing the star players contribution, yet this post quoted you appear to be highlighting the impact a star player has? For the record, I believe a star player is crucial to a team, you need only look at Bale at Spurs, RVP at both Arsenal and his first season at Utd, Hazard etc...

 

Ah see so we come to it

Was he the best of a bad lot? Sure why not? Yes he was and I already gave him credit by agreeing with you that he did nothing wrong and that he even got a goal too

Sure he worked hard and did great for him but sorry he's a pro footballer and as such eligible to be judged

Average player, nothing wrong with that I keep telling you guys!

You seem desperate to defend him no matter what whereas I merely seek to

A) see lfC improve by trying to be realistic
B) wind you up

 

Other eleven?

But Suarez did carry the team. That is not to say that he could have done it on his own. What is being said is that he was instrumental in everything good that the team did. Without him, it wouldn't have happened (the title challenge) and that he possibly could have done it with ten other decent players and any decent manager.