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Off Topic Chelsea Scum (aka The UK Politics Debate Thread)

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by Sanj, Feb 18, 2015.

  1. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    Some of those intending to vote UKIP really need to check their policies. I was listening to a bloke intending to vote UKIP on the radio the other day who was saying 'The Tories are selling off our NHS' (which they are) 'and they are doing it because it can't cope because of immigrants' (which isn't true)

    The NHS is under pressure because of an ageing population and under resourcing. UKIP actually plan to sell off more to private health care providers and charge NHS patients to see their GPs.
     
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  2. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    If your going to suggest others check there info you should probably do the same :p UKIP have said the NHS under them would remain free at the point of service, no ifs no buts. It's also UKIP policy to pump a further 3 billion into the NHS raised through cutting middle management and admin costs to boost front line services.

    The ways they have suggested the private sector can assist the NHS is the EXACT same thing that Labour brought in and has continued and grown under the Tories.

    Early in the parties history they looked at the NHS and how it could be worked differently and came up with all sorts of barmy ideas, in fact at one point they had a number two who was pro privatisation. But as they have grown as a party and become more mainstream there policies have grown and changed to suit the voters they have. No-one wants the NHS touched and UKIP clearly listened.

    Now I have a deep mistrust of all politicians and what they'd do if they got into power is another story all together, but as it stands UKIP policy on the NHS is that it would remain free at the point of service and have a further 3billion funding.
     
    #62
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  3. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    So they've ditched charging £5 to see your GP then ?
     
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  4. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    The idea of charging to see ones GP I believe was suggested by a nurse, of no significant political leaning if I remember correctly.

    This is a stick Labour have tried to beat UKIP with but UKIP have answered this more than once. The NHS would stay free at the point of service under UKIP, I.e. No GP charge. Farage has public ally stated this more than once and it is debunked on the UKIP website.
     
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  5. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

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    Arsenal fans are a knowledgeable bunch <ok>
     
    #65
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  6. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

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    Getting back on topic, more reports of classy Chelsea fan behaviour, this time racist chants in Kings Cross station http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31564836

    Police are investigating racist chanting at St Pancras station by men thought to be Chelsea fans returning from a Champions League match in Paris.

    It comes after an incident of alleged racism by Chelsea supporters on the Paris Metro, when footage showed a black man being pushed from a train.

    The chanting in London happened on Wednesday evening, the day after the club's 1-1 draw with Paris St-Germain.

    British Transport Police say anyone with information should contact them.
     
    #66
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  7. Murray

    Murray Active Member

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    How do you account for all the things Farage himself has said and stands by? Such as that we should be wary of foreigners who move in next door? Or that women have to give up having children if they want to be worth the same as men in the workplace? Or his lack of support for gay marriage?
     
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  8. breconsaint

    breconsaint Active Member

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    To be fair, I think most people who consider voting UKIP are concerned primarily with leaving the EU and ending unrestricted immigration(which would automatically follow). This may appear to be single issue politics, but when one considers the host of issues which hinge on our membership of the EU, it is a fundamentally important point (whichever way you think). Most UKIP supporters are prepared for their party to cease to exist if they can win that one goal. Whatever one's opinion of them, they are at least advocating an executive answerable to the British people, rather than Jean-Claude Juncker, Herman van Rompuy or Martin Schulz ("I know nussing!").
     
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  9. pompeymeowth

    pompeymeowth Prepare for trouble x Staff Member

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    Remember when Idi Amin sent back all the immigrants?

    please log in to view this image


    Did you know Brec's that Klink's (Werenr Klemperer) dad was a famous conductor?
     
    #69
  10. breconsaint

    breconsaint Active Member

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    Ah Sergeant Schulz! My childhood! Werner's dad was, I guess, Otto?
     
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  11. TheOXOCube:5pur2

    TheOXOCube:5pur2 Pride of North London

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    What a classy club <doh>
     
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  12. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    Maybe so, but I work for the NHS in management so I know this topic probably better than some. I have worked on making 20% CIP (cost improvement savings) each year for the last 8 years, the last 2 have seen my budget slashed by a further 10%, so that's 30% less each year that I have to spend. The NHS is already cut to the bone and last year I had to come up with a CIP for staffing that saw 10 middle managers reduced to 2. Now those two managers have to carry the work of 10 people and in a nutshell it's not sustainable, the quality of work suffers and essentially you get what you pay for. A reduction in staffing means a reduction in quality.

    The only way to improve the NHS is to spend more money on it and that means either higher taxation or spending less on other services. Neither are a popular option for voters and correct me if I'm wrong but I don't see UKIP advocating for higher taxation. If anything they want to slash taxation for the highest earners and load in onto the middle income earners, unless they've ditched their 40p in the pound flat rate too ?
     
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  13. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    As far as I remember it's a 30p flat rate joining NI in with income tax and they've recently said they'd remove tax for those on minimum wage.
     
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  14. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    Well there's a £10k tax free allowance as it is, so I doubt many on minimum wage would be earning much more than that anyway. Personally I'm an advocate of the living wage rather than the minimum wage. If a company can't afford to pay it's staff a wage that allows them to live without needing tax credit top ups, or visits to food banks etc then I don't think they are a viable business. It's the gap between rich and poor that needs to be addressed, and respectfully I see UKIP doing nothing whatsoever to address that. They are a break away right wing arm of the Tory party, covering the ground that the Tories have had to move to the left on to appease voters.
     
    #74
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  15. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    Someone working full time on minimum wage earns approx 13-14k and many do more hours than that, so it's around a third of there wage that's over the tax threshold. It'd be a huge benefit to a lot of the people who most need it.

    I agree with you though, the living wage is what people should be trying to pay. You can't lay the blame solely on the shoulders of individual businesses though, there are plenty of viable businesses that have no option but to pay minimum wage in certain situations due to budget constraints.
     
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  16. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    I'd have to contest your definition of a viable business to be fair. For me it's only viable if you can pay your employees a living wage. Otherwise you're expecting the state to top up wages (via tax credits) to protect the profits of private business.
     
    #76
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  17. Tiddler

    Tiddler Hoshu-tekina

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    "The only way to improve the NHS is to spend more money on it and that means either higher taxation or spending less on other services."

    This is untrue.

    #1. Reduce the demand on the service.

    #2. Reduce the money wasted on paper shufflers & pen pushers.

    UKIP can help solve number one by booting out illegals and better managing the number of immigrants, and your resignination can go a little way towards helping number 2 :p
     
    #77
  18. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    You could also introduce compulsory euthanasia for the over 75's or anybody with an IQ below 75 I suppose ....
     
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  19. Tiddler

    Tiddler Hoshu-tekina

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    Absolutely no connection to my stated views, but the low IQ is a good idea. Clear out most of N17 in one fell swoop :)
     
    #79
  20. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    I've worked for a business as a sales person providing services to public sector clients like the NHS (who pay far too much for entry level jobs in lots of admin positions) where you can literally only win certain contracts by pricing them at minimum wage. That's not the business expecting the government to do anything, it's pricing at the going rate of the industry. I would always offer a higher prices alongside my final price indicating we would prefer to pay our employees the living wage, but people simply don't want to or can't afford to pay more for the service. The business barely made a profit on most of the public sector work and wanted to look after it's employees but market forces would not allow for a higher wage under certain conditions.

    There are plenty of businesses that provide lots of people with jobs and do what they can for there employees but can still only pay them minimum wage. It's a very narrow view to think any business paying employees at minimum wage is unviable or exploiting it's workforce to protect profits. There are always several factors involved in what can be paid for a particular job within a particular business or industry.
     
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