Off Topic 12 dead in paris shooting

Apparently one of the security services latest upgrades has been in regards to internet forums.

It's all bollocks about terrorism and encryption anyway as simple use of codewords, one time pads and so on by passes all the hi tech technology and vast data farms. It's about mass surveillance and social control of the masses and the financial gain to be achieved from that.

"4-4-2, big man up front, Adel on the bench" could mean anything...

 

Just to test the religious tolerance - I found a website with the Pope's mamma jokes....

If someone "says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch," [Pope Francis] joked.

Pope's momma so fat they send up white smoke when she puts her fork down.

Pope's momma so ugly they switched back to Latin Mass so they don't have to turn around and look at her.

Pope's momma smells so bad when she walks into church they have to light all the candles at once.

Pope's momma so fat Jesus ran out of fishes.

Pope's momma so fat when he said he wasn't gonna wear the red pope shoes she said "What's shoes?"

Pope's momma so dumb she went to the Vatican tombs looking for Malcolm X.

Pope's momma so dumb she asked for a papal bull at Sizzler.

Pope's momma so fat they give her a poker chip instead of a communion wafer.

Pope's momma so ugly they baptized her with Holy Bondo.

Pope's momma's feet stink so bad Jesus stood 10 yards off with a pressure washer.

 

The head of a Christian Church with a dodgy history and a divine right to rule??? Surely not

Sometimes its easier to see the fault elsewhere than amongst ourselves. Its quite natural actually (like Stan - correctly - bashing the Pope) and I'd never begrudge a man doing it. We're all full of biases, contradictions and hypocrisies.

You are quite right Imaz. What's that yarn about the speck in one's own eye?



(PS Very good comeback from the Mod, Mr Nines. I hate getting into arguments with him because I like him so much. Nothing more I can say really.)

 

Yeah, using that example was not my brightest move. I was in semi conciliatory mood yesterday, but angry again today. Your Hitchens post reminded me - no quarter for ignorance and fear, wherever they come from.

I watched the Neil programme last night. I usually avoid it because I'm beginning to quite like Portillo (really enjoy his travelogues) especially when he's sat next to Abbott, and this worries me. If Alan Johnson is on its more bearable. But last night they had some French Algerian Muslim journalist on who would not answer any question, went on and on about 'insults to Muslims' and you could tell that all of them, even Abbott, were furious. Plays right into the hands of the bigots.

Things are not looking promising. Rule 303 will be applied increasingly.

 

I keep a large bottle of Optrex for those occasions.

 

Yes, I've kind of warmed to Portillo too.

I don't know about the bigots, but I'm getting tired of being told that I need to understand how insulted Muslims are by depictions of the Prophet. I will never understand and I don't particularly want to try.

 

Since the Paris slaughter I have heard far more Muslims on various media outlets complaining about them and their fellow Muslims being insulted, than I have heard Muslims saying they are disgusted by the events in Paris.
To be fair to Medhi Hasan, a guy I rarely agree with on anything, his opening statement on Question Time was spot on, as he categorically condemned the Paris outrage.

 

It seems to me that someone with a religious faith should feel that their beliefs are strong enough to withstand criticism and ridicule.

 

This man was over the top with what he said.
He should of said that you respect our laws or dont live here.
We should say the same.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...freedoms-living-West-pack-bags-f-live-TV.html

 

Speak of the Devil..........

 

All very thought provoking made me watch Body of lies again as I tap on my Apple TV while ordering new suede john White chelsea boots all on the Internet ... What a hypocrite Pratt I am ... I now face getting Russell Crowe/Leonardo Dicaprio ads pinged to me for the next few months and logged out of this forum and reading I will get suggestion ads for summer sandals plus of course hundreds of affinity data partners will target me
Yes I can wipe it all away but then I have to log in again and again from scratch and I am too thick to remember any passwords etc
It takes me hours to start up a new clean iD from different IP's one mistake and we all get made again and the rats are biting at my door

I have one safe place ... France when I there as no internet but as soon as I log into any local wifi to watch a match ... It start again after all they know where I am so bollocks and bollocks

swords as I said years ago you have two tins of beans out of date in your kitchen cupboards... It's old news

 

Yep. You would also imagine that if they actually believed their God is all seeing and all powerful they might think 'well, if God feels insulted he'll probably deal with it him/itself no need for me to dig out the automatic weapons and post a death statement on YouTube'.

 

He gave us Jeremy Hunt and IDS instead.

 

To be fair you only need to if you enter the debate.

This is quite often the problem, nobody wants to understand where the other guy is coming from, and feels particularly agrieved by their position without really understanding it. This is a problem on all sides.

BTW the best discussion I've heard about this whole affair was this interview with Will self and Martin Rowson (balanced and very little if anything I disagree with tbh)

http://www.channel4.com/news/will-self-martin-rowson-cartoon-charlie-hebdo-satire-video

 

I probably didn't put that very well. I will never understand because I consider myself to be a rational human being and being insulted by drawings of some bloke from 1400 years ago who didn't like having his picture taken is an irrational reaction in my opinion.

I'm watching 8 Out Of Cats Does Countdown, but will check out the Self interview later. Cheers.

 

Yep can't argue with that, but then by definition "faith" requires belief beyond the rational. Even if you disagree with the depictions, surely the simple thing is to ignore them. One thing I do think however is that somehow we feel our values trump their values. Obviously they feel their values trump ours. Now that shouldn't really matter UNTIL one decides to step into the other's territory. I believe Charlie Hebdo did just that. And once you do, you muddy the waters. You can't then start imposing your beliefs as better than theirs. Seems almost colonial in mentality tbh.

Benidorm on ITV for me

 

IMO the major problem and irritant is that we agree that it's a problem of religion. It isn't, it's political, racial and emotional, a deadly cocktail. A long way from our shores there are millions of people who blame races like us for having enslaved them and dispossessed them and they're just dying to kill us. They want us to pay for exploiting and abusing them over the centuries - looting their lands, pissing all over them. It's not personally our fault, but they want us to pick up the tab. I've worked for a few weeks in Morocco and I was spat upon because I was a European. Are we headed for a major confrontation? I think probably we are and hope I'm dead first.

 

This is the thing - 'you must respect his/her faith'. I don't respect any faith.

 

I think the invading of Iraq and Afghanistan might seem similar levels of provocation as any historic events to them although we justify it to ourselves as something bigger and, dare I say it, holier.

The attempt to force democracy on countries is an odd one. On the one hand, it undermines democracy itself (ie the right to choose how to live) and can't possibly avoid mustering hatred given the self righteousness of it all. On the other, I would definitely say that it is the most advanced level of society humankind has developed. That is, as long as the leaders of it are paragons of it.

I honestly think that we might have found that some Muslim countries would have moved towards democracy (or an equivalent thereof) if left to their own devices much as China has in the last 30 years.

I'd be disappointed if democracy is still seen as the answer in 100 years and I'd hope those that take on the next improved society don't treat us like brainwashed primitives.

In the meantime, I'd be quite content if we tried to make democratic society the best it can possibly be, both for ourselves and as a positive corruptive force of those that don't use it rather than trying to bludgeon other cultures with it.

I'm probably being very naive, hypothical and fanciful though.

 

That's a fair standpoint Stroller. But should anyone go out of their way to disrespect it? And then if they do disrespect it, cry foul when the religious person, who was minding his own business, doesn't hold the same values as them?