Just nicked ythis off the Foxes board. An intresting read a bit like clive... See what you think? http://www.thedaisycutter.co.uk/2014/11/how-supporters-became-the-new-villains-of-modern-football/
A good read Queens but I don't buy hardly any of it. Old codgers will always drone on about the "good old days" when in reality the good old days were just as dismal as the present ones but because they were younger then, they look back on them through filtered lenses and only remember (hazily) the good bits. Sure there are some downsides to the way football has gone but overall Sky has enriched the game beyond belief. Me? I just can't get enough
I think this really sums up the problem with the English game. Sky came along in the late eighties early nineties when the game was in trouble. They pump so much money into the game that it is all about money now and every thing else is a bonus. Fans turning up at the ground are an added bonus it makes the sport look better. You only have to look at Germany to see it can be done so much better.
It's a prevalent view amongst people who go to games Swords*. Sky, BT etc is great when your only option is to watch on TV, and I'm delighted that its available for good supporters who for whatever reasons, can't actually get to the ground, but its the way its has taken over every aspect of the game that hurts. Of course in the old days there was plenty wrong - horrible stadiums (at least LR negates any need for nostalgia on that front), violence, threatening atmospheres etc etc. But it was cheap and communal. I've droned on about this before, but having seen the cost and experience on offer in the Bundesliga it is obvious that the PL is also a gigantic rip off, a scam committed on people like us, the addicted. It's a scam that results in 8.00 kick offs on Monday nights against Everton, when there are no trains back after the game and the fans, not the TV companies and clubs, get criticised for only a few going. There are modern, accessible alternatives but greed stops them from being made available to us. Why do the English put up with this ****? Paying at least double for TV subscriptions and match tickets compared to the rest of Europe? I think DT is right, it's the culture - we think we are lions but in fact we are sheep, meekly following where we are led by the marketing 'guys', who flood us with choice to the point where there is no choice. We are force fed wall to wall football every second of the day like geese being bred for foie gras, incredibly unhealthy geese which are completely expendable, but addicted to the crap they are being fed. And, to mix the metaphor, one day we will stop laying the golden eggs greedily snatched up by TV and the clubs because we will see through how we are being exploited, and we'll be too knackered, saturated in football, and poor to care any more. This is funny, but also true..... At the moment I'm 99% sure I won't be renewing my season ticket next year (I'll probably crumble when push comes to shove in the summer), whatever league we are in. I can afford it, I enjoy the days (if rarely the football) but I am absolutely sick to death of being ripped off for such a shoddy experience, and would rather spend the cash on seeing games in places I've not been to before. Nice find Queens. * I have no idea whether this is true or not (i.e. I made it up) but it adds credibility to the rhetoric which follows.
A good read from both Daisy and Stan. The PL/Sky is taking over so comprehensively that we football supporters are irrelevant. Look at how many tickets have been sold for the game on Sunday. There might well be more from Sheffield than London at the game. Why?
I remember well at the end of the 60s I and a couple of mates would go to any game that took our fancy when QPR weren't at home. I think it was 69-70 and we went to some great matches with no having to book in advance, pay fees and the rest of the rip-off. Most games it was 1s 6d at the turnstile and straight in. We were in 60,000+ crowds at Highbury and Stamford Bridge, 56,000 at White Hart Lane and 49,000 at Selhurst. The buzz at the really big games was incredible. Nowadays you just can't compare the modern offering in any manner. My biggest bugbear is the corporates, a bunch of arseholes who often have no interest other than a place to brag at the expense of the real fan. Sadly, the game is changing to the point that the real fans will soon be a thing of the past and 'clientele' of a club will be measured by the Chablis they quaff and the canapes they devour...
Good points Stan and I agree with most. I do think that the author, in his zeal to recapture some misty notion of the past, has got it arseways. Sky has brought the game to the masses rather than took it away from them. For all its imperfections (gross player wages, very expensive tickets etc), what alternative would this dreary old dreamer like us to have? With no Sky, all the other leagues would get all the best players and hence all the best teams. The English league would be a backwater with muddy pitches, decrepit old stadiums, 2nd rate players and booze-filled sentimental twats like the author up on the terraces clinging desperately to an outdated fantasy land where they feel they still had some relevance. Its actually sad to read that article and realise that there's a guy out there (and probably many more) who feels so out of step with the modern World. He's probably terrified every time he opens his front door to the bustling street outside. Sky has been a revelation for English football and has brought it from a parochial backwater to preeminence on the World stage. It's dazzling and thrilling and has enhanced my life and no doubt many others who have a love of the sport of football and all the passion and excitement that goes with it. I just can't get enough
All valid points Swords but you're missing the biggest one and that is what separates the true football fan who actually wants to be in the 'bearpit' from the armchair voyeurs. Anyone at Wembley on May 24th will tell you money couldn't buy that moment of actually being part of it...
Good points Swords and yes Sky have taken the game to the masses, but in many ways it has alienated a lot or regular fans because they do not really consider the supporter who follows their team up and down the country. Take for instance the changes of kick off times just for the armchair viewer and little consideration for those who have to travel to actually go to the game. This last 2 weeks why was it really necessary to have a game last Sunday having played the previous Friday and then a full set of fixtures yesterday?.....reason because Sky insisted, but look at the number of empty seats at The Ethiad yesterday, 5k below normal. The average punter can not afford 3 games in a week at this time of year. You're right about better facilities/pitches etc but then Sky in reality is only interest in the top 4 sides in the country, the rest are just there to make up the numbers or be an inconvenience......
Nonsense. The folk crying about Sky are the same hypocrites that will sit down and watch QPR away at Everton or Man U or Sunderland etc and gleefully lap up every moment of it - yet bitch about it afterwards because its trendy to do so. In the past they couldn't do that, barring a tiny minority of obsessive anoraks who spent every cent they earned going up and down the Country following their football team, to the detriment of everything/everyone else in their lives. That option is still open to these guys and if they don't like the modern "soulless bowl" and the high ticket prices, there's ample non-league Clubs in every corner of the Country where they can gorge on depressing nostalgia to their heart's content. The rest of the footballing World meanwhile will continue to evolve and move forward
And no doubt Swords, you prefer to 'cream yourself' in front of a screen rather than sample the delights...
Sorry but I'm one of the people that cry about sky and have never had it in my house. If I can't get a stream I don't get to see the game. I cannot afford to go to games anymore thanks to the stupid pricing in the game. Thanks to nines I managed to be there in May. I'm firmly in the sky has ruined football camp and I don't appreciate being called a hypocrite.
Some great responses and posts onn this (notablu Stan) and I think its a great subject. Sky has transformed a crappy, terrible day out (for the masses) into a global brand. Now i personally like what has been made available to me, and, due to my location thats gonna be biased. As for the real every week supporters, it must be a nightmare. Let face it, as far as the club and sky are concerned.."Supporters are a pain in the arse"...away supporters even more so. Do you realise the hassle caused by people actually going to the games. the policing costs, the timing certain games so you cant have local London teams at home (typically Gooners or Spuds) Facts are, that apart from aesthetics, Sky dont need supporters at the games. How much money would we save on policing alone if we didnt have to accommodate away supporters.? in real terms they make no difference to the result. So eventully Sky will get what they have been after for years ...The European Super League (We call it the Champions League ATM) and away support will be severely limited or banned....Maximum exposure at minimum cost. If anyone is stupid enough to think that 15K people turning up at Loftus road has any significant on the game, then you are seriously deluded. the whole game is aimd at the Asian market, and i would love to see how many Asian viewers subscribe and watch the game compared to those at home. Its all money and its all business....the likes of us dont mater at all. we generate 99% f-all to our club...and Tony is fully aware of this... Those who were calling for his head may have had some substance, maybe not Simple facts are, we as fans mean sweet FA...In the grand scheme of things ....IMHO
Good thread Queens. I think you are right. The only way 'ordinary' supporters can influence things is by acting en masse with tens of thousands of us refusing to pay TV subscriptions and not going to games. **** up the business model. Of course that is never going to happen, because we are addicted, and even though deep down we hate what has happened to our game, we can't help ourselves.
I've never had it in my house either Raving. That's neither here nor there. You're obviously one of the very few who can't go to the games but still wouldn't watch QPR when they're on TV. I don't know how you can resist but if they're your principles, fair play to you. No, you are not a hypocrite. You're in a very small minority though I fear. Other than good people being priced out of the game which I agree is a huge issue that's very unfortunate and has arisen out of greed, I don't really see where else Sky has "ruined football". In every other area its brought it on in leaps and bounds as far as I can see. But then again, if you can't afford to go see the game then all the rest of it doesn't really matter. I wish Tony and other Chairmen would reduce the prices and get the loyal supporters back in. The prices really are a disgrace.
OK mate..on the back of that can you really say they have improved the game? They have made it a nice (expensive day out) but improved how. Stadiums are pretty and safe but when was the last time a Prem league club won the CL or any or our players REALLY featured in the world cup. They have made it a day out like Royal Ascot, Wimbledon Mens Final or England at twickenham. Its full because its an event on the social calendar. For the average non coorparate fan, its not ha much difference, except the price increase. Ask those who go !
They've improved the game alright Queensy but the home nation's national teams being sh*t is another issue. That's down to coaching at youth level IMO. If we developed proper players then the national teams would improve. Its up to the FA to put in structures that safeguard the development of homegrown players. If they're good enough, they'll be successful. Two and a half years ago was the last time an English team won the CL. If you say the four best leagues in Europe are England, Italy, Spain and Germany then we should on average win one about every four years. The Stadiums and pitches are miles away from what they were. You're right though, the prices are a disgrace. Its going the way of Ice Hockey in north America. You and I should be counting our lucky starts that Sky/BT/ESPN are on board mate. If they weren't, we'd rarely get to see QPR play except on a crappy stream
