Yep - Had Mastercraftsman been further ahead I've no doubt the gap would have disappeared! 2007, that's what you call going mob-handed and still nothing came of it! I honestly don't know which side to edge with. The race is down to five with only SYT for Ballydoyle so there can't be any team tactics now! You never know - all this conjecture and watch Snow Fairy spring a surprise!!!
Im going for Workforce! SMS is on abit of a bad run, but I reckon this will kick start his season. 2/1 with PP for a horse that has won the derby and arc! Great Value for money! Ill be having some of that!
It's good to see an Eclipse generating so much interest. It is also refreshing that AOB has withdrawn his other three horses - wish it would happen more often.
I'm finding it difficult to come to any conclusion, other than to enjoy it. For what it's worth, here's my thinking on the race. So You Think. First 2 races in Ireland told us nothing. He easily beat horses that had been easily beaten before. The POW race. Either (a) he just wasn't good enough (b) AOB didn't train him correctly (c) AOB underestimated Rewilding and thought he could win the race easily without getting SYT 100% fit. The only option that leaves AOB with any credibility is (c) so I'm going with that. With that in mind the race was a fast time so if there were a few lengths to work on he would have been a very impressive winner 100% and that would make him difficult to oppose over 10f. Looking back at his form it is difficult to guage whether he has beaten anything of the standard he meets Saturday. One very strange piece of form was as a 3yo he ran against that flyer Starspangledbanner in the only 8f race that horse ever contested, and was beaten nearly 8l. I have to say that is not impressive but it was 20mths ago and I'm overlooking that. Workforce He was a big baby at 3 and did well to keep balanced at Epsom. My view is that his very fast run on firm ground there left its mark and on similar ground at Ascot he was not so willing to subject his powerful legs to a similar pounding. His run in the Arc was on easier going and to me explains his better run there. As a 3yo big baby he did not know that his efforts at Epsom would hurt. At Ascot I think he was more aware. Saturday. If the going is firm, I would be a little worried about backing Workforce. So You Think would benefit from fast going, particularly as Sandown is a stiff 10f. If the going came up softish I think Workforce would power his way up the stiff finish to win. I can't see anything else getting into it as neither of the main two will be wanting a slowly run race with a sprint finish. If it does become that then who knows?
I'm wishing A O'B had left all his runners in, so I could back Snow Fairy e/w. Her price is big for a dual Oaks winner, but she won't beat a peak form Workforce. Seeing Stoute on the cold trainers list is a worry though. As for So you think, right now he's underpriced and overhyped on what he's acheived in the Northern Hemisphere, where it matters. Of course in just over 24 hrs he may be confirmed as the superstar Bart Cummings thinks he is (and the horse).
Same thing was said in the local last night, Woolcombe! 2/1 for a Derby & Arc winner in a five horse race!
A race to savour, ordinarily i'd be all over Workforce but the yard is way out of form!! I will be doing the fav and 2nd fav to beat Sri Putra in SFC. Horse loves the course and could nick 2nd if the first 2 do not fully per4form.
I disagree GDC fair enough he hasn't had any winners in the last two weeks , but lots have been performing with credit. More to do with the fact the horses running are not good enough atm imo. Before these last two weeks he was banging in the winners for fun and was the one to be with going in to Royal Ascot, he didn't have many runners there. 2/10 5L, Fiorente 8-12 9/1 2/8 1¾L, Raahin 9-3 9/2 5/15 9¼L, Protect 8-9 16/1 3/7 ¼L, Dux Scholar 8-8 2/1F (NEEDED RUN) 4/8 4¼L, Verdant 9-0 4/1 2/11 7L, Kinyras 8-13 v1 8/1 3/8 2¾L, Profondo Rosso 9-3 v 5/2F 2/16 2¼L, Blissful Moment 9-5 11/1 3/9 ¾L, Shamacam 8-7 20/1 3/12 1L, Levitate 9-3 v1 7/4F 4/8 2L, Carlton House 9-0 5/4F 2/9 2¼L, Heavenly Dawn 9-3 2/1F 4/12 1½L, Entitled 9-11 11/4F Plenty performing well enough, just not good enough animals to win the races
RV good research, when you look at it like that the Stoute's horses, whilst not flying, aren't exactly finishing tailed off, he's come up short quite a few times. So the percentage of winners doesn't show the true story.
I wouldn’t be worried about Sir Michael’s form in the slightest (which isn‘t as bad as some state as the majority of animals are still finishing in the money- in fact 10 out of his last 12 runners have finished in the first 4 home). And anyway form is temporary but class is permanent. The race will be a ‘no bet’ one for me but if someone held a gun to my head, which I’m sure that no-one would ever want to do, then I say So You Think.
kiyonemakibi: Don't talk rubbish! Plenty of other trainers are given regular stick, not just AOB. The respected poster Mr. ChippyMinton, of Trumpton, and his twin brother on Fugees, have turned it into an art form on one particular trainer, who seems to have fallen by the wayside. Also, the equally respected Mr. Mechanic will often comment on the escapades of the little bald-headed fiddler handler from the north. Plenty others have come in for some heavy criticism at times from the wise contributors of the old and sorely-missed BBC 606 Forum? Or maybe you just haven't noticed yet?
My concern is that at this time of year Sir Michael's horses are normally flying in left, right and centre. It is extremely unusual for his yard to be lacking in winners like this. The man is a genius however as he proved with Workforce for a lot of us 'loyal' followers in the Derby and Arc last season. As much as i know 2s is extremely good value for this Champion horse i cannot back it with the yard running so badly. It would be superb if he can get this one home but the horse from down under will make him go, as long as Sri Petra follows home the winner i will be happy. And all the horses return safe and sound of course
Sadly that one particular trick in Mr Minton's cabinet has been taken away from him by the powers that be. Fair enough really as you can't allow libel (even if it is true) to go unchecked but it's still a sad day I'll just have to play hide the purple parsnip with mrs Honeyman this evening to cheer myself up I'm with Sir barney on this race though - no bet for me but if my life depended on it I'd say so you Think.
Ah so it's the law of the internet, where pretty much everyone gets slated! Probably just as well this stuff wasn't around in the 60s or 70s, we'd have got comments like 'Piggott? He's overrated, I could win with the horses he gets!'
That's pretty much it. Can you imagine the stuff being said if the net was around when Shergar got kidnapped?
Great to see Sir Michael getting a winner, let's hope Workforce improves from his last run and makes a great race with the Oz horse Cats: If you place an ante post bet you get the place terms that were offered on that day irrespective of how many runners race on the day. It is one of the perks of ante post racing against the many negatives. This rule is the same with every bookmaker. The race stops being an ante post race from about Thursday lunchtime (for Saturday races) as an example mate
Thanks for that GDC and CherryMinton and the others that have commentated about it. As an aside Class Is Class has been working with Workforce... and Workforce has give his stable mate a run.. caught him up and powered clear, the form of the yard worries me.. A race to savour rather than to get stuck in.
It's just So You Think for me. You can bet they will not go for him early tomorrow, especially with the uphill finish. Should be a cracker though and definitely one to watch.
I would still stick with So You Think in this. I was super confident for the POW and he came up short but that day i feel i saw the horse he could be at his best but he wasn't able to show it for whatever reason. He quickened clear and looked as if he was going to win well before being worn down close home by Rewilidng. He ran too free in front, was arguably committed too soon and was possibly undercooked. I am sure that those mistakes won't be made again but my one concern is that Ryan Moore will know exactly how to beat him and that is what is putting me off. He'll have discussed this with Sir Michael and with Confront in the race as well, Ryan will be able to ride the perfect race to give Workforce every possible chance to beat So You Think. My feeling is that So You Think will still prove good enough but that one fact is putting me off. Everything else is in his favour mind, and we can be fairly sure that if he fails to win tomorrow he is not all he was cracked up to be. I am hoping that he is but i won't be wading in with quite the same vigour as for the POW primarily because of the prescence of Ryan Moore on an excellent rival who will know precisely what he needs to do to get So You Think beat. If Ryan was on So You Think i'd be piling in once more. As he isn't i'll be keeping my cash in my pocket and enjoying what looks set to prove a thrilling race. May the race be true and fair and may the best horse win.
