ENGLISH premier league

So should Newcastle be kicked out because you're full of French players?

 

They're dancing in the streets of trans network solutions.

 

Please stop making fredor look a little less stupid than he really is - he was the only so far to completely miss the point of the question being asked. The OP is not questioning how many of your players come from Wales, England or Outer *****lia. He is asking why a Welsh team play in the English league and yet two Scottish teams aren't allowed to. It's a fair question, though one that I think has been answered on the thread.

It's a more complicated issue than it first appears when you take into account that a newly re-formed Newport County were allowed to take up a place in the English pyramid when they were technically a new team, and also that even though Gretna played in the Northern League (and always had done), when they had investment and wanted to progress they had to apply for a place in the Scottish League.

It is surely a good thing that people are at least asking these questions. When you had those two seasons in the top flight in the early 80's hardly anybody was asking why you didn't join the Welsh League because the Welsh League was not looked on as a proper national league. The fact that people are now asking the question surely shows the progression within Welsh domestic football, even if there are very good reasons why Swansea, Cardiff, Wrexham and possibly Newport, deserve a place within their traditional home of the English football pyramid.

 

It's only a "fair question" if you're incredibly stupid and are completely ignorant of football history. Swansea was a founding member - yes a founding member - of the Football League (Southern) 80 odd years ago and yet now this is being raised again. What happened before that is now rather irrelevant. If the pyramid authorities and/or the fans were unhappy that was the time to object, not now. So rather than post daft threads you should have taken 5 minutes to look it up on Wiki.

Contrary to an earlier post the debate hasn't "raged" at all because most fans have some knowledge of history, as evinced here I'm glad to say. Sadly, some don't. But yes, from time to time we Swans fans (and our lovely neighbours down the M4) have from time to time defend our very presence in the pyramid. As one of our number pointed out nobody gave a flying **** when we were bouncing around the lower leagues and almost slipping into oblivion.

We've also noticed that some fans of clubs in trouble always raise this issue - as if we were somehow taking their place. QPR did it a couple of seasons back and now it's raised here. The Mackems have raised it because they couldn't score against our 10 men on Saturday. They have to be the most inbred lot I've come across on any Not 606 board. So I'm glad to see some intelligent responses here from people who know about the past and people like the OP should take note. Question asked and answered.

 

The debate has gone on a long time fella, raged may be a bit strong. It is maybe not a topic which is discussed in Wales where it is pretty much common knowledge. It is however something I have heard raised many a time here, largely when the Celtic/Rangers debate comes up. Should they be allowed, how would they fair etc etc. It somewhat inevitably gets round to the subject of Welsh clubs setting the precedent.

Its a very obvious question given Wales has had a national league since 1913. I don't think the majority of todays generation have that much historical knowledge of football or how leagues were formed etc. That isn't stupidity or ignorance, its simply a choice to concentrate on present matters. Lets face it, a lot of historical detail is forgotten or trampled on in the modern game.

It is a fair question and forums are surely a good place to ask it?

 

I disagree with your opening statement. If you read back through the thread I am one of the ones who believe that your place should not be in question. To say that people are stupid for asking the question though takes no account of how much the football environment has changed in the last 80 odd years. Things do change and it is not wrong to review and look again at issues just because something has existed for a long time. I am firmly of the opinion that the Welsh teams are an integral part of the pyramid and not only deserve their place in it, but add value to it through our rich shared history.

You are doing an injustice to the OP for saying he is asking because we are struggling. If anything, his question seemed to be pushing more for allowing Celtic and Rangers in because you are here, not for pushing you out because they are not.

Another reason that it's a fair question to ask is because there is a small, but significant number of Welsh football fans who believe that your place is in the Welsh system, helping to further strengthen the Welsh domestic setup. It's not my place to have an opinion on that one, but you can hardly say that they are suggesting that to protect struggling English teams?

 

The OP has asked a question that has been asked a million times before with the EXACT same answer given every single time.

Glad to see some Toon fans have sense though

 

Agreed - bloody hell I never agree with a Cardiff fan ever!

I have no problem with the debate at all, if that's what it is. But if the question is simply 'why are some Welsh clubs playing in the ENGLISH (his caps not mine) leagues' then that's an easy answer that has been asked and answered many many times and one which is of historical record that can be found online in seconds. He also used the phrase that Welsh clubs were "worming" their way in, and that shows a complete ignorance of the facts.

I am not suggesting that this particular poster is motivated by the Toon's lowly position (which will improve if and when Pardew is history imo) but it is noticeable as a fan of a Welsh club that we are increasingly having to defend our historical and rightful place in 'your' leagues, and it's inescapable that it's usually from fans of clubs that are struggling, though not exclusively.

Good luck guys apart from the obvious games and please please please beat those tools down the road from you.

 

#yawn# ok........this is the same old argument everytime. Lets forget about history etc for a moment. If Rangers/Celtic applied to be a part of the FA league pyramid, of the 92 clubs in the current league, how many would accept them "having" a place in the Premiership? Knock on effect is either an extra 2 teams get relegated that year or 2 teams dont get promoted.
This then filters down the system to teams who have fought for survival year after year in the hope of getting to the "promised land" and that some will be forced out of the league system by default.
All teams in the current format have long strived to reach the top and participated for many a year paying their dues and doing the dirty work (so to speak)
I am not against teams wanting to join the league but would be against them leapfrogging every other team that has fought year on year to reach the top.
How about Newcastle joining the Scottish league? Guarantee they wouldnt put you in the SPL!!!

 

I am certainly not going to apologise for responding to insanity with flippancy, I was hoping that even with your limited intelligence you would have been able to see that, so even if I did give you more credit than you are due, can you tell me in the scheme of things today in your little world on a scale of 0 to ten how important do you think it is that a couple of teams from Wales are playing in the Premiere league ?

 

This is the bit that always amazes me when you hear Old Firm fans talking about coming down to play in the Premier League. Some assume that we would welcome them with open arms. Others recognise that there are 92 clubs in the league and think they should start in League Two. Thing is, there are 160 teams in our national league structure (with 44 of them being split into North and South)and then at least a minimum of 4 lower leagues before reaching the entry level league for large teams (ie: usually clubs that have gone bust and re-formed). Depending on geography then sometimes there are many more levels than this. People assume these teams would all roll over and let Celtic and Rangers in but I doubt this very much. Two seasons ago a non-league football team turned down an offer in excess of £2 million for a striker from a football league club because they were still in with a shout of promotion to the conference. (I forget the team but it was significant enough to warrant a bbc article at the time). If teams are that committed to promotion then they will not want to be leapfrogged. It also shows that it would take ridiculous amounts of money to compensate these clubs if that was an option.

It will never happen.

 

If you are going to call people stupid fyodor then it is best not to do it in a post that highlights your own stupidity...

scale of 0 to ten - you shouldn't mix and match numbers and letters. It is either on a scale of 0 - 10, or it is on a scale of zero to ten

couple of teams from Wales - that would be Swansea and.....erm......I suppose Liverpool isn't too far from North Wales

Premiere league - do you mean the Premier league?

Nurse! Nurse! He's out of bed again......

 

I had a feeling I was wasting my time, keep up the crusade , I am sure you will be successful with your life

 

I'm no spring chicken, but not even you are old enough to have been in the Crusades fyodor.

 

I love it when SOME not the majority english fans moan about founder members from wales are allowed to play in the football league and the premiership as it shows their ignorance.. It always seems to be fans from struggling clubs that moan and that tells a story on its own.. The home nation sides are crap and will never win anything because the premiership is run by foreign owners,managers and players and all they can complain about is welsh clubs who especially the swans who has rose through the divisions after being just 20 minutes from non league football to a good premiership side managed by a proud Englishman, ..Today after a lot of hard work and staying within our means we have made it into the top 50 richest clubs in the world. We have shown other clubs the way and some are now following our example and we fully belong in the premiership and will always be here or the football league......There was no league of wales until relativity recent and we are far too big for such a small league......we are entitled to be here just like everyone else and there is nothing anyone can do about it.....

 

I wrote a thread on this subject back in 2011: http://www.not606.com/showthread.php/42822-Welsh-invasion-on-the-way

 

To be fair we're probably not good enough for the Scottish PL at present

 

Yes Joker, and Welsh clubs "helping themselves at English football's top table" thereby completely disregarding our efforts to get there, as well as the fact we were founder members 80 years ago kinda gives us an idea of your mindset.

But you go further: "the prospect of two Welsh clubs getting the massive windfall that the Premier League provides will be sick-making to any supporter/chairman of one of the many English clubs struggling to make ends meet."

All this does is put into sharp relief your prejudice and complete ignorance of the facts, but sadly judging by the comments of other fans 3 years ago you're not alone.

Joker indeed. Take the 'r' off, mate.

 

Rather apt that you have a profile image of Ash , says so much without words.