Actually it's a bit of both, because standing is and has been allowed in a number of stadiums even up to championship level and is allowed in several rugby league grounds. There is no statistical evidence which proves standing is any less safe than sitting, and as many people know the tendency for fans to stand in all seater grounds compromises the safety of the seating areas. Borussia Dortmonds south stand holds 25,000 standing for bundesliga games to date there has been no fatalities associated with the rail standing system they use. However it's right to say any move to generalised safe standing would require governmental support but as OLM has pointed out there also needs to be corresponding access and evacuation measures to deal with increased numbers.
Rugby League is not covered under the same legislation though, it applies to football grounds As far as Championship teams, I believe they are given 3 years to make their grounds all seater after promotion
Scunthorpe United were told they would have to make their ground all seater within 3 years after promotion to the Championship, they just didn't last there long enough for it to happen
http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/the-legalities-of-standing/ Many supporters believe that it is illegal to stand at football matches in the Premier League or Championship but this is not actually the case. Although clubs are allowed to throw you out if you refuse to sit. Confused? You're not the only one. Read on for a full explanation as to the law on standing and how it is implemented in all-seater stadiums. THE LAW ON STANDING AREAS The legislation relating to standing in football grounds derives from section 11 of the Football Spectators Act 1989: ‘The Secretary of State may, by order, direct the licensing authority to include in any licence to admit spectators to any specified premises a condition imposing requirements as respects the seating of spectators at designated football matches at the premises; and it shall be the duty of the authority to comply with the direction.’ Initially it was planned that all Football League clubs should convert to all-seater status. This was subsequently amended to include just the top two divisions. A similar amendment to allow standing in the Premier League and Championship is also quite possible and would not need a new Act of Parliament. In England and Wales, standing is permitted at rugby union and rugby league venues, as well as at speedway and horse-racing. It is also permitted at football grounds outside the top two divisions. We see no justification why top level football clubs should be treated differently. THE LAW ON STANDING IN ALL-SEATED GROUNDS Ever since the introduction of all-seater stadia, many supporters have continued to stand in front of their seats, often for the duration of the game. It is widely believed that this practice is illegal. This is not the case, even within Premier League and Championship grounds. The law only provides that these clubs should provide seats for all supporters, not that supporters must sit on them. The point is confirmed by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport: ‘At no point has it been argued that the individual spectator commits a criminal offence by standing in a seated area’ (Source: Letter to Football Supporters’ Federation, 2008) Standing in seated areas, is, however, contrary to ground regulations. For example, the Football League’s model set of ground regulations states: ‘Nobody may stand in any seating area whilst play is in progress. Persistent standing in seated areas whilst play is in progress is strictly forbidden and may result in ejection from the ground’. It is notable that the two rules are contradictory, the first bars all ‘standing’, the second only ‘persistent standing’. In practice, standing to go to the toilet or snack bar and standing at ‘moments of excitement’ is permitted. The boundary between ‘moments of excitement’ and ‘persistent’ is rather grey and open to very wide interpretation. Dr Steve Frosdick is an independent safety expert who has worked in sports grounds across Europe for more than 20 years. He says that standing at the Cardiff City Stadium is neither illegal, nor inherently unsafe, and can be managed to suit the needs of those who prefer to sit or stand. The club agree and have since formalised this approach. Read more here. CRIMINAL AND CIVIL LAW There are two types of law, criminal law and civil law. Criminal laws are offences against the state (‘illegal acts’, such as smoking in enclosed public places. Police may become involved with enforcing criminal laws. Civil laws are contracts between two parties, such as agreements to purchase home insurance. The ground regulations of a club (including the ban on persistent standing) form a contract between the supporter and the club. Entering the stadium is a tacit agreement to accept the ground regulations. By standing, the supporter is in breach of that contract. This is a civil, not a criminal matter. Therefore, a supporter cannot be arrested simply for standing. For that reason, it is not a matter that the police should be involved in, unless (for example) a supporter assaults a steward asking to get people to sit down; that would be a criminal offence. STANDING IN SEATED AREAS – CLUB APPROACHES Since standing is an issue between clubs and supporters, it is up to individual clubs how they deal with it. Certain clubs are very strict in attempting to tackle this practice, taking measures such as ejecting people who stand. These practices can create significant public order problems, while there is little evidence of them being effective. Other clubs take a more relaxed approach to this, particularly where it is not causing problems.‘We take a somewhat relaxed view on (standing) provided the individuals are not causing annoyance to other spectators or obstructing other spectators views.’ (Club safety officer in correspondence with FSF member) ‘A measure of persistent standing should be tolerated” (Premier League chief executive – Source: FLA board minutes, May 2006) Pending more formal revision of the regulations relating to standing, we support sensible approaches such as these as a way of improving the matchday experience for supporters and stewards alike. WHAT IS THE GOVERNMENT'S STANCE? The people with the power to lift the legislation that stops standing in the top two divisions of football in England and Wales are the Government, through the Department of Culture, Media and Sport. Their view is as follows: “We accept that some supporters miss the tradition, character and history of some of our former grounds and many are in favour of the return of standing areas. It is generally accepted, however, that the majority of football grounds are safer and more comfortable than they were twenty years ago. “Before any change in the legislation, there would have to be a very clear demand, as well as very clear evidence that any such change meets stringent safety standards, presented from all the relevant authorities responsible for stadium safety, including the police, as well as it being clear that this is something that all parties want.” The Football Supporters’ Federation agrees that great improvements have been made to both the infrastructure of football stadia and the management of football supporters over the past 20 years, but find no evidence linking the improvements in safety to standing itself. Successive governments have agreed that standing can be made safe (it's allowed below the Championship) and we believe the debate can only be moved on by a small number of trials of new safe standing technology aimed at collecting real data that can be used to determine whether standing at football is safe. - See more at: http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/the-legalities-of-standing/#sthash.mHEm5Yih.dpuf
The original plan was for all tiers, but it later got diluted, from wiki... All-seater stadiums have been compulsory in the English Premiership since the start of the 1994-95 season as a result of the Taylor Report, which gave recommendations to improve stadium safety after the Hillsborough disaster. The initial plan, drawn up in 1990, had recommended that standing areas should be banned from stadiums in the upper two tiers of the league from 1994 onwards, while stadiums in the lower two tiers had until 1999 to meet these requirements. A review of the proposals in 1992 saw non-Premiership and second tier clubs retain the option to have standing areas.
A prolonged bitter quarrel with or campaign against someone: (Oxford Dictionary) ....and lambrettaman rhymes with vendettaman.
The thing is as no doubt Mr Allam would remind us, the FSF only represents a small minority of fans There are probably fewer FSF members among City passholders than CTID members
You're starting an argument with me at every possible opportunity and it's getting tedious, I'm sure everyone is bored of it, I certainly am.
You wish. I've simply got a different opinion on things, and YOU are the one that's got abusive because of it. I've actually avoided pointing out where some of your posts are very misleading because I know you get upset and abusive. I've avoided reacting to some of your more robust insults. This board is about opinions, on some things mine will differ from yours. You seem to want to stiffle that discussion.
I suppose now is the best time on the pitch but its a no go on the money side and with the ownership of the stadium at the moment. On another note was talking with my Sheff Wed supporting mate the other week and he was saying about city being a small team. I said can only fill the ground available. I said how big a stadium would Sheff Wed build today if they were doing it from scratch. It wouldn't be the 40k stadium they have now it would probably be more like 30k. Same with the KC if built today would more likely to be 30-35k to line up along side the Norwichs and the Southamptons.
What the **** are you blithering on about? I was referring to the people who live in Hull but choose to support teams they don't bother going to. The type of games we sell out are the ones that you'll get little kids wearing Liverpool shirts in the home end. Don't be so defensive. The point remains. If we get 25,000 fans knocking on the door EVERY WEEK, then they might consider it. It's about supply and demand. At the minute, there isn't a demand for it; money is tight, people can watch games on Sky and we just don't have as a big a fan base as we ought to. We often hover around the 22,000-23,000 mark. But when all the closet Liverpool or Manc fans (I'm talking ones that don't support City at all) pop up, that's when we fill the stadium. This obviously has to change, but it's not going to happen overnight and sticking another set of seats in isn't the solution. Our attendance against Lokeren, in a game that could see us reach the group stages of a European comeptition, when tickets were £20 for adults and £10 for concessions, one of the most historic games we've had the fortune of playing in and we managed a paltry 18,149. So you tell me Nancy Drew, if we aren't filling the stadium on occasions like that, how can you justify sticking another 5,000 seats in there? And don't give me that preachy, ' I ws stood on Bunkers Hill' bollocks, I'm pretty sure most of us were, it doesn't make what you say anymore right or wrong. Try looking at the here and now, not the past or the future. I'm not saying we should stay like this forever, but until we're satisfying the demand there isn't any point. It seems like a lot of people have been watching Field of Dreams, but 'build it and they will come' isn't a sound business model.
