Wayne Rooney, has he become a liability....discuss

Take a look at succesful countries selections over the years, all of them leave experienced players out which causes a few raised eyebrows but its the team that matters not one players ego. Rooney has had his chances and not taken them, Hodgson has to think about the future and the younger players futures for England. The game has changed we need flexibility up the pitch were a player can slot in and cover if needed, Rooney just cant do that he let Baines down all game - cant teach an old dog new tricks.

 

There's a lot of bollocks on here. Too much to address individually. Sturridge at fault for Marchisio's goal? He marked his man Pirlo and Marchisio was unmarked, how's that his fault?

Rooney being known as a hard working player is a crap argument when the point is that he clearly wasn't hard working last night when it mattered. He blatantly wasn't interested in the defending part of his role. Being out of position isn't an excuse for that.

If the argument is that we should put more emphasis on Rooney and leave out other players to fit him in, nothing that happened yesterday supports it. What he did well he did from the left, and what he did poorly wasn't down to position, it was attitude and technique.

The thing that frustrates people about Rooney is that he's so hyped up, and now it seems like everyone else is hyped down. It seems like no matter what an English player does they aren't allowed to be as good as Rooney. Even now people are saying we should place even more emphasis on him when other players have performed well and instead of praising those who played well we're talking about dropping them to get Rooney in his best position.

 

I'd certainly drop Rooney, replace him with Barkley in the no. 10 role as he is a player that loves to turn into space and get the opposition defence on their heels. I'd put Sterling out wide as although he was brilliant in behind last night I think he can be even better cutting inside.

 

Rooney used to run at defences like Barkley and Sterling then he signed for Man Utd and has gone downhill season by season where he has turned into the player he is now, great but not world class.
How many times does he drop off and hit a long diagonal ball?
Very accurate passes but we need more from him at international tournament level.
No goals in the big games as a striker is not good enough.

 

So are you blaming him for Welbeck not tracking back for their second goal as it was him on the left for it???

Do you think if Rooney had played central of the three and Sterling was tasked with the left he would have done any better? Cos i dont. We have two defensive midfielders behind the 3 attacking midfielders. Henderson needed to close Candreva down. Watch the goal again and watch Gerrard get left for dead by Candreva.

The knew how we would play and came up with a plan to counteract it. We then carried on letting them do it. It was ****ing stupid from Hodgson not to rearrange his team.

 

I would start Oxlade-Chamberlain and Barkley against Uruguay instead of Rooney and Welbeck. The Ox, Barkley and Lallana are far more deserving of a start instead of Rooney, he's just **** for England. It's all well and good saying he's 'world class' but he just doesn't perform well for the national team.

 

If was a defender I'd be happy as Larry Rooney playing on the left.

I'd don't think we deserve to get beat, but they had that little bit of know how.

For me Rooney has to play central. Liverpool made Sterling, Suarez and Sturridge. England can definitely make Rooney, Sterling, Sturridge work.

Personally I'd go for Rooney, Sturridge, Sterling as a front three. Barkley in a midfield three with Henderson, Gerrard

 

Must be a big worry for Louis Van Gaal, he's stuck with Rooney for 5.5 years on £300K a week!

 

Seems to me the bollocks is you inventing daft theoretical argument to argue against. You are giving Rooney huge grief, for what, exactly?

We left our best LB at home and his replacement needs to prove himself; not whoever is on the LW. Rooney should not have been on the wide left, it wasn't his choice, he didn't contribute to a goal for them, he did for us.

It was a mistake playing Sterling from the start; Lallana did very little when he came on, but he would have taken the legs of their players over 60 minutes, leaving Sterling to come on and use that speed to best effect.

Space and opportunity was created, but the final touches awful, but we had a natural striker out on the wide left - seems to me that everyone wants to emulate Ferguson's mistake of trying to make Rooney a man for all occasions; he is a striker, end of.

A player with limited pace was played out of position by his manager; try analysing that. Perhaps Roy took a calculated gamble to blood and judge his weaknesses? If he did, it was only poor finishing that frustrated his plan and what an hero he would and should have been.

 

I totally agree, Rooney is being played out of position, he should be behind Sturridge through the Middle. Also agree Sterling should have been saved until 30 minutes to go, I would have played Welbeck on the left, who is good at tracking back and help Baines who was left isolated, with Lallana on the right.

 

Apart from the fact Sturridge was marking thin air until the corner was taken short, at which point he was at full sprint to close down and got sold with the dummy?

 

Yeah I do blame Welbeck. I feek sorry for Hodgson since he made that change to defend the left side better then Welbeck did exactly the thing Rooney was doing wrong. I'm not sure Sterling would have done any better no, but I'm not suggesting we should have done that. Nowadays you can't just have 2 midfielders who defend. Almost every player now has to attack and defend. If Gerrard and Henderson went wide there'd be no one in the middle. I don't think it was particularly tactical, we just didn't do the basics right at times in defending from the front. But despite all that the main reason we lost was probably wastefulness in attack.

 

There was two men. He marked Pirlo fine. Pirlo didn't beat him with a dummy he just left it to run for someone else, what can Sturridge do about that? Someone else should have been marking him. We must have had someone spare elsewhere.

 

You don't have two men on the edge of the box, it was great awareness by Pirlo to dummy and then the England players weren't out quickly enough but you wouldn't expect marchisio to be marked

 

I wasnt asking them to go wide. Candreva came in between Baines and Henderson and Darmian pushed right on. It was Gerrard or Hendo who needed to help Baines as well. From the Guardian

The key feature of the first half was Italy’s dominance down their right side, where England had two problems. The first issue was the intelligent movement of Antonio Candreva, who floated between a right-wing position and a No10 role, showing the spatial awareness that Prandelli believes compensates for Candreva’s relative lack of technical quality. Candreva’s movement on that flank narrowed England, with Leighton Baines dragged inside, and opened up space for Matteo Darmian on the overlap.

Meaning Candreva was more of a forward than a midfield player when he drops deeper the CM's have to pick him up.

So all the first half they were doing this, Hodgson does nowt about it and we concede a goal from the self same thing second half. Thats tactical.

 

Yeah agree with that really. Think we were a bit slow reacting and getting out to close him down but we should have been reacting to the dummy, not to him subsequently teeing it up. He was obviously going to do that once he received it.

I don't know where he was playing, sure you're right, but that goal clearly came from the wing and it was cos Welbeck let them pass it to the winger unopposed. We must agree on that surely?

 

Ye it came from the wing if you find a highlight with the full build up though you'll see Candreva makes a run from CM and Gerrard doesnt track him. He runs in behind Baines and crosses it.

 

I've only seen it back once but I remember seeing them play it down the line past Welbeck from their defence to the winger (even if he wasn't playing as the winger at other times). He was already stood on the wing by that point. Can't say I've seen the run you're on about but it sounds like having moved out wide Welbeck should have taken over marking him instead of the CM.

 

You're not getting it the RB is on the touchline he plays the ball in behind Baines.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...-day-live-2014-fifa-world-cup-england-v-italy

go on Iplayer and watch it. I've just been playing it back from the 49th minute. Christ its a disaster. PLO drops to the edge of their box and we have 6 players all at least fifteen yards into their half. When the RB gets the ball he's further forward than Gerrard and Henderson.

Honestly freeze frame it on the 49th minute and go through it its madness. 6 players ball watching.

 

Just watched it but the first problem is when it's played down the line beyond Welbeck. That's what I'm on about. Before that they were just passing it about not going past us but once it goes past Welbeck it's fullback vs Baines with someone running behind Baines. I don't see how Baines can win that really. The run was good and exploited the space behind Baines but he shouldn't have had to storm out like that. Welbeck should have stopped that first pass. He didn't need to be right on top of him, just close enough to put him off the pass. It was the problem we had all first half with Rooney there, I was saying it at the time. Roy tried to fix it by putting the more determined Welbeck there but then he did the same thing. Nowt the manager can do about that it's just a mistake. Baines could have done better having caught up and tbh the way he bought that dummy was embarrassing, but you can't expect your fullback to win all his one-on-ones, especially when there were so many of them.