So many posts! Can't respond to them all as I don't want to spend all afternoon debating politics (as interesting as it is) so I'll respond to a few. Yes and what makes the UK so special that we have to be given special treatment? Don't you think it's rather arrogant to assume we should be treated differently to everyone else? As you say, special treatment for the UK is not going to happen, however I'm talking about reforming the EU as a whole. Angela Merkel has said in the past that she supports reform of the EU. Nope. What I was saying is 'doing politics' by fear and divisiveness is similar to the way the Nazi party 'did politics' in the 1930s. For example lefleats claiming 26 million people are coming to steal your job. Also I feel it's important to note that politicians often use the EU as a scapegoat for policies which they themselves support for whatever reason but don't want to be seen to support but by saying "Oh we can't change such and such cause of the EU" they are wiping their hands of it when in many cases, they have power to change it if they want. So if a politician says we can't do whatever cause of the EU, take it with a pinch of salt. They may be right, but likewise there's a chance they're BSing. Yes well the focus should be on those businesses that pay EU workers below the minimum wage, undercutting UK workers rather than the migrants themselves. Targeting the latter is targeting the symptom not the cause. I think there should be a lot more pressure on companies that do pay below the minimum wage including huge fines. Plus, what people often forget with free movement is all the hundreds of thousands of British people who have emigrated to Spain and Cyprus and places. It's a two way process.
the EU will do whats best for the EU, not the UK, or a couple of disgruntled members who aren't really fully signed up members. is it arrogant to want special concessions? well i think its a pretty basic and reasonable question to ask, since when the EU was formed and we joined, we didn't get 500k people flooding in from one country as countries were of roughly equal wealth. the deals changed significantly but despite what you say the UK will have to go along with what france and germany want. as for fear mongering, they put it wrongly, but it is worrying for any person in unskilled or semi skilled work that they are having to compete on wages and working conditions with people from all over europe, that cannot be denied. you talk about clamping down on companies that pay below the minimum wage, but i'm talking about tesco, amazon etc, the real big players, and the legit businesses, not the odd one that pay beneath min wage. retirees in spain buy property, and will be big contributors to the public purse. us going to en masse on holiday to places in economic crisis like the ones you mentioned are keeping them going, they need us far more than we need them.
Without the EU our country would be ****ed. the tories have seen to that over the last 20 years and we need the EU far more than they need us...We talk about immigration as if its a one way thing but even without all the expats in their thousands in European countries there are expats by the thousands in Australia and new zealand and an estimated 40,000 living in malaysia. So its a bit rich when you hear UKIP spout their propaganda....
But the EU really does need to do most of its finances through London due to British work hours being active both during Shanghai's, Tokyo's and New York's work hours. It's a fairly unique location that lends to billions of savings due to its central location. The reason the banks won't move to Spain is that the Spanish governments are historically chaotic, where financial rules are known to change very often to appease the nations clueless population. So rules go back and forth and cost big financial companies a lot of money only to find it reversed as soon as they completed the expensive changes. The EU want a levy on every financial transaction but the UK will not see any of it, that goes to Brussels. If the UK left the EU then we can set the levy ourselves and that stays in the UK, and the EU would still have to do business through London because the international banks will stay put so their markets overlap both Asia's and America's on the same working day. Paris misses out on the New York exchanges by an hour so that is a no go, and Spain ofcourse just cannot be trusted by the international banks as a place headquarter themselves. Levying just as little as 0.1 pence to the pound can make the UK about £100bn per year today, imagine it in 2030 when the global economy is going to be much, much, much bigger. As much as ten times bigger. Hence why the UK is projected to be Europes bigger economy nor matter if it is in the EU or out of it. We can expect an additional trillion just from a British government enforced levy on top of any other growth and on top of the current £1.7 trillion per year we make. Can't remember the date we are supposed to overtake Germany but it is easily googled, and a good read ai would recommend if you don't mind some of the annoying and repetitive abbreviations the finance sector loves to use. We worry about our Fallen Empire Complex but as South America, Africa and Asia gets richer so does our country just by freak chance of it's location and better rules than Madrid which is a complete joke of a city.
Thought you were supporting the EDL/WDL Fool, since those groups fell apart its no suprise to me that you are voting for the ultra right UKIP then!
Don't worry gendros. When ukip get into power im going to build a nice estate for you and your unwashed ilk. Will have large encompassing fence with 24 hour security. Also there will be great dental care and communal showers. And just a short train ride away. You will be safe.
Sorry I dont think so Fool, the only time that happens is in your tiny mind, wishful thinking indeed! Every right wing party in the UK has collapsed from Mosely's Brownshirts on, National Front, BNP, EDL, next is UKIP. The latest right wing march in Swansea had 30 on it, highest number for years.
Looks like its picking up momentum, and not collapsing Gendros, has it got you and the nutjob PC brigade all scared and quivering in their boots, that you cannot control something with your expected and usual pathetic claims of racism and fascism. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is racist though aren't they, you have prior which can be seen on this thread. Of which you are still yet to provide proof, why, because your like those nutjob's, all mouth and no substance, people go on about UKIP scaremongering, well its better than scaremongering people into believing that if they say anything about immigrants, whether good or bad, the mere mention of the word gets them labelled as a racist. As I have previously stated in this thread, you and your ilk epitomise what is wrong with this world.
Whats that Swanselona, you dont see Fool's threat to put me in a concentration camp? That's the type you are joining with. Bitter, twisted people with hate and not hope. What are you going to do when Farage cuts your sick benefit? What are you going to do when you have to pay for your health treatment?, what are you going to do when your pension is cut? What are you going to do when Farage removes the minimum wage?. It will not affect me because I will pay less tax. Farage appeals to the lowest common denominator and has certainly found it in you and Fool. Try engaging your brain for once and stop blaming others for the condition you find yourself in.
Sorry Musty but I totally disagree with compulsory voting. I have never missed a vote in my life but if someone told me I had to vote I never would again. I live in a free society and can do whatever I please, long may it continue!
Yes I did see that, but then seeing as you were the first to throw mud, at which was aimed at me, then I focus on that, one mans actions or comments does not make the rest of them the same, you are not that naive are you? Who exactly is your preferred choice when it comes to politics then? We will see what dirt we can drag up from individual members to tar you with the same brush like your doing with us shall we. But wait, I wouldn't be surprised if you said you don't have a preferred party.
gendross you get told to do a lot of things in life that you have no choice in refusing so why is compulsory voting a problem. Everyone who is eligible to vote should be made to vote as it is very important that the right people are the ones who the majority of the country want to run our country. Voting is so easy now days with the postal vote if you want...
So you do agree with Fool then Tom, you do believe in concentration camps? Being a 'mod' I would have thought you might remove such a post, by not removing it you give tacit approval to it. If the cap fits wear it.
I just believe in freedom Dai, never missed a vote in my life, here or when I was posted overseas. Just dont like the idea of someone telling me I have to do something when I dont want to.
Tom? Ok See this is the sort of person you represent, now I haven't told you I agree or disagree with him, yet you have made your own mind up on the matter. Why? Are you incapable of genuine debate, or accepting that I am capable of having my own thoughts, instead of trying to tar me with the same brush over the thoughts of another? Are you not better than that? I guess your not. This is a debate, if you don't like a comment, report it, I could just as easily have removed your comment in which you accused me of being racist, or is it ok if you are the one posting ****? Your not two faced are you Gendros?
And again, you tar all with the same brush because of the comments of 1 person, you really are something else aren't you (I would go further but Vetch told me off once already, so I am on my best behaviour) I could have, if I wanted to asked Valley to ban you after you claimed I was racist, yet still have yet to provide quotes of me being racist, why? Because im not a whiney little bitch like yourself, I don't get butt hurt over words being said. You on the other hand, very much like the Tory thread we had a few months back, like to throw **** around, but whine like a bitch when its sent back in your direction, you epitomise the PC brigade, I would rather see your sort kicked out of this country before any immigrant.
I tell you one thing though, even in my fifties it would take more than a sicknote and a fool to put me in a concentration camp!
