Cup Conundrum

I was out for a few bevvies on Friday night with a few mates (4 Mags, 1 Mackem and a Man U fan). After quite a few we got onto the subject of the Cups and our disregard for them. A couple seemed unfussed by cup progress, but in the main (3 of the Mags and the mackem) felt a cup win was something to have a go at. The Man U fan as part of his argument against said "Ok, name the Capital One and FA Cup winners since 2000. Then try to name ones previous to 2000." It really was embarrassing that barely any could name the cup winners for the right year. Yet we could pinpoint loads from the 70's right through to the 90's.

Naturally the subject quickly moved on to why because we all had the same interest in football we'd ever had. A few things were mentioned:

- The big clubs not taking them seriously until the latter stages - Man U and Arsenal particularly (I'd dispute singling them out)
- The advent of the CL and the money involved taking the big clubs eyes off them
- Our obsession with an overrated PL, and the money meaning they dominate the advertising
- The FA failing to remain the driving force behind football and releasing power to the PL
- The FA failing to introduce a winter break to deal with ever increasing physical demands meaning clubs have to rest players for cup games
- Lower clubs like ourselves who can see you get more money by finishing high in PL and wanting to avoid relegation at all costs

There were a few others but I can't remember them for some reason........

Anyway we soon moved on to how to get the magic of the cup back:

- CL place to FA Cup winners
- Ditch the league cup altogether (surprisingly the mackem suggested this having travelled down last Sunday)
- Introduce a winter break
- Make entry optional (the Man U fan) so only teams interested took part
- Introduce rules about playing weakened sides
- Increase prize money

So what would you do? Personally I liked the idea of ditching the league cup as I think it might encourage sides to play their best players in the FA and also increase the focus as it would be the only cup competition. I don't like the idea of a Cup Winner getting in the CL, just seems wrong. I have always been in favour of a winter break too. The prize money seems an obvious draw but it really depends on what sponsors will put up. I am massively against clubs opting out! Nobody had a solution for the Mike Ashley scenario where he just decides to discard them

 

dump the format of the europa cup bring back the cup winners cup in a knock out format,play the final at a massive stadium, min of 80 thou with a large wedge to be won, and punch the **** out of any owner or manager that treats the F A cup as something to be avoided

 

I just saw the draw for the Scottish league cup.
Looked like someone knocked it up with a fruit bowl, a square of carpet with an x cut in the middle and some kinder egg cases. (The draw set up I mean, not the cup).
I think the league cup should be converted to a pre-season competition between the winners of all the UK leagues. Like a six nations with the scottish cup the equivalent of the triple crown or calcutta cup.
Lets face it, The winner of the EPL could field their reserves and give it a good go.
I agree with the cup winners cup too. CL losers shouldn't get a free entry though.

 

I just don't see any point in the league cup, no one cares.

 

I care DMW, if we publicly awarded ourselves a trophy for beating our youth team I would cheer.

Hurts not having been alive to ever see my team actually win anything.

 

I know but the cups have completely lost their lustre under a sea of too many fixtures and clubs belittling the competition (us included). There must be a way to reenergise them. Ditching one will surely encourage all clubs to play their strongest side. It might help encourage people to have a smaller squad so less extravagant finance too (use their youth players more in the extreme situ's) I understand some people still care, but overall the FA Cup and League Cup have become such a poor product. People used to be genuinely excited by the cups. Now its PL and nothing else.

Bruce won today and commented how its lost its magic. Sad situ as growing the FA Cup was massive. Not being able to even name all the winners and barely any in the right year, really brought it home. I loathe our attitude to the cups. But I loathe the general opinion of them within football circles even more.

 

You don't think the FA Cup Winners should get a Champions League Spot? Surely they are actually "champions"... What did 4th place in the league ever mean? I'd prefer it went to the champions of the FA Cup.

On the subject of us, maybe our players don't bother their arses about cups because they don't get bonuses for it in there contract? I'd say that's fairly plausible. Let's face it, a cup win probably means eff all against the financial motivation driving the direction of this club. You get a tiny amount compared with staying in the league, so it would make sense that our players would be offered bonuses for league matches and not cup ones, or relatively small amounts in comparison anyway.


I'd not be bothered about dropping the league cup at all.

 

The FA Cup should hold a qualification for the Champions League, Platini has for a long time now wanted to take away qualifying places for the CL from the PL, on the aspect of how the cups have become secondary to other ambitions some of this may be because of the influx of foreign players, managers, coaches and owners, you rarely hear an elite player state his ambition is to win the FA Cup, the focus is on the Champions League and for the elite clubs the financial reward of CL and the top end of the PL far outweighs the rewards of the FA or League Cups. At the bottom end of the PL as pointed out survival becomes the driver especially now as the gap between Premier and Championship leagues has grown ever wider.

 

Totally agree C.L. place for F.A.cup winners for a start. Hard to see us having a winter break as with our unpredictable weather you never know when the worst of it is going to come so we could have a string of games called off immediately before or after the break which would be disastrous fixture wise. Although the League Cup has always had less importance i dont agree with abandoning it. Its another potential trophy to win which for all of the lesser mortals in the league is an attraction. Had Sunderland won last weekend try telling their fans it was all pointless. Still a great day out.Optional entry -a non starter. Rules about weakened sides is a point but always hard to police and to be honest a lot of the top sides give younger players a chance there and still bloody win so no harm to them and great benefit to those youngsters. Increasing prize money possible but unlikely, wheres it going to come from?
As for naming recent cup winners i think a lot of this is down to age and memory, you do actually remember more from older days than recent times despite retaining your interest.
As for us i think it is very annoying that we dont try for the cups but the finances dictate otherwise sadly which a C.L.spot for the F.A.Cup winner would help solve. Still think winning one would be financially beneficial tho and the bollocks about avoiding the Europa should be forgotten. The Fairs Cup win is still legendary here. Lets get into it FFS

 

I think rewarding the winners with a champions league place is the only way to re-invent the FA Cup.

Not just that, it would also give a more even playing field in the league with only the top 3 getting champions league football. I imagine at least one the the top 3 would change every season and at first it would be a rotation between Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs & Man Utd but if a team misses out two years in a row, are they really going to be able to continue to pay Rooney etc 300k a week without breaching FFP? At the moment, with it being the top four it's almost certain that no team will miss out two years running.

I mean look at Man Utd, miss out this year so they give Rooney stupid money, they've bought Mata for 40m and it's widely expected that Kroos, Pogba, Dante etc will arrive in the summer at a spend of around 200m. They know by spending that amount it'll all but garauntee them 4th place. But would it garauntee them 3rd? I doubt it. I just think it would stop, or at least slow down the stupid spending to get back in to the champions league places and therefore allow the "rest of the pack" to close the gap.

 

We did consider this but then everyone could name the PL and CL winners. It really is just down to the cups becoming lesser events. I hadn't really thought about it before, but I realised I was just more interested in days gone by with regard to the cups. The cups had a bit of magic about them, there were a lot more fairytales. There was a genuine buzz around FA Cup weekends. Now its just a break from the "real" stuff. Its only got worse over the last few years with our lack of effort. I just think its a sad state of affairs.

Everyone is different I suppose but I must admit I really would like the League Cup gone. I just think no one would really miss it. Yeah maybe a third of the 15 finals since 2000 have been been won by sides outside of the top 6 but if people can't even name them, its hardly a massive event. The cups should be special. Over the 50 years since it was introduced it seems to have become less and less special.

I am kind of unsure about the CL place for FA Cup winners but maybe it is worth giving it a go.

The winter break for me is an absolute neccessity. The weather is unimportant. We can get bad weather at any time but there are plenty of opportunities in the calendar to have one. Other countries manage it no problem and it isn't because of the weather. I just think it would benefit everyone from the clubs teams to the national teams to the Cup competitions. I have yet to see a valid reason given for not having it. The only reason I see is the PL are against it because of tradition and its a real money spinner for their brand.

 

As ever.

 

I agree that the cups have lost their magic even tho i cant like you name all recent P.L. and C.L. winners from recent times either, maybe thats just me losing it lol. To be honest the League cup never has really been special. Its always been second best, i remember Swindon from the old third division thumping Arsenal in the final in the seventies and no-one was really bothered. I dont think others being able to name the winners in future really matters either. If you win the League Cup its a fairly major trophy won, a fantastic day for the fans, players, club and area, money made by the club and nowadays europa cup entry and i dont think any of those clubs fans outside the top six who won it would ever swap that day or forget it. Frankly at 53 and not seen us win anything since 69 when i was 7 and can hardly remember it i would take the League Cup like a shot so removing it makes it even harder for us to win something, Keep it i say, just get our lot to actually try to win the bugger.
Frankly i'm not bothered either way about a mid season break, i can see pros and cons either way. My only point about the weather was that if we have a break then have two or three weeks with no games due to the weather either before or after the break it will lead to fixture problems and clubs whinging about relegation due to fixture congestion etc. Not really fussed either way myself tho and cant see it being of any major benefit to the fans.
Definately think a C.L. group stage place for the F.A.Cup CHAMPIONS would massively boost the competition and likewise could do the same for the Europa League which would indirectly slightly boost the League Cup.

 

you maybe losing it mate
you're the same age as me, but I was 9 in 1969

 

Ha Ha defo losing it, but am not actually 53 till july so wasnt yet 8 when we lifted the cup

 

Completely agree with the main consensus - CL place for the FA Cup and the loss of one CL place for the league. Fcking brilliant idea, and obviously no-one on this board is biased as we're fcking hopeless in the cup! Just makes complete sense to restore balance to the league.

League Cup only for teams outside of the Premier League, possibly even then opened up to Scottish League Clubs? Even if not, a smaller tournament between the league clubs is fine - it's not like the Johnson's Paint needs a Europa League place.

Would also just make the Europa League a UEFA Cup again, knockout from the start. Much more exciting. And that fcking stupid CL format needs to be shot. One group stage, to make it far less lucrative for the big guns. And under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should a losing CL club get another shot at Europe. Was it last year's Europa League SF's that had all four places made up of CL teams? Joke.

I'd also consider upping the number of UEFA Cup places to 3. Imagine you consider that next year the UEFA Cup could have Arsenal, Spurs and Man U in it? Plus we have a realistic chance of getting in it - then you can watch UEFA pi$$ their pants at trying to keep Sir Alex happy, so the money will naturally go up. Nothing wrong with having a second European competition as long as the clubs in it are better. Next year's effort could have Sheffield United in it....fcking hell, if that's not stupid I don't know what is.

Obviously if the FA Cup Winner is also in the top 3, then the 4th place becomes a CL place and the runner up goes into the UEFA Cup.

All so utterly, utterly obvious.

 

idea for league cup, minimum of 6 youth players in the side for the league cup, for each match, keep the europa place as it is, make it compulsory to use your youth sides for these games, valuable expeience for the "b" cup competition.

 

I say keep League cup as it is, give Europa winners a C.L. group place therefore everyone sees the Europa as far more attractive which logically then makes the League cup more attractive bringing a more attractive Europa competition for the winners and maybe eventually C.L. Just a thought but worth a try.

 

But the last few seasons the E.L. has been won by a club that qualified for the C.L. in the first place. In my opinion your idea solves nothing and in fact exacerbates the problem if nothing else changed.