I don't think I'm being contradictory. He was immense in some of the games, good in some, OK in others. In this thread, I haven't once compared him to Cork. However, all I saw on Saturday was him taking up bad positions and chasing shadows. I'm sorry but thats what I saw. This has nothing to do with Cork. We obviously weren't going to win without making changes at that time so I had no problem with the substitution. What I don't understand is this, if he's not ready then don't play him. In the good old days a player would play a couple of times for the reserves to get him match fit so why couldn't he have played for the under 21s once or twice? After all, they play the same system. I'm not picking on him because of the Cork thing. I'm picking on him because at this moment in time, he is rubbish. You are obviously a fan of his, thats fair enough. But I would give you the same sort of argument that you are giving me, that you are letting his early performances colour your view of him now and not allowing the reality of his performances to break through.
Or he just understands that you give a player time after a spell on the sidelines before deciding he's crap. Especially as he was really good before said spell on the sidelines. A player doesn't just suddenly become crap, and furthermore I think you're being far too critical of his most recent performances anyway.
This is the strangest one of these discussions yet. Agreed, in the Fulham game where he was played way too early he didn't look great. However I don't think he was "rubbish" or "appalling" against Liverpool, but that's purely an opinion, so fair enough, you're allowed it. However, what isn't opinion is the fact he's played a mere 60 minutes of competitive football since coming back from a broken leg. To judge him on that is just bizarre beyond belief. Another point to note - he came on during the Liverpool game to offer something different (a physical 'threat') as Liverpool by that point had completely shut down the midfield (which included fan favourite Cork) and we needed to try an alternative out. You might even call it a Plan B. Now it didn't work ultimately, but Vic I am sure was brought on to "put the cat amongst the pigeons" a bit, so I personally had no problem with him committing a couple of niggly fouls and getting a booking. It was worth a go to try and unsettle their midfield at that point. Castigating him as "rubbish at the moment" off the back of 60 minutes, and moreover under the circumstances of the game, is more than a little bit unfair really.
Yes that too. Actually a lot less experienced than Cork. Any news on TSS, by the way Qwerty? Just taking a break I hope?
I agree with both these points. I thought it was a sensible substitution. We needed to change something as Liverpool were on top at that time and he was bought on to try and shake things up a bit. Also, as I said above, its crazy to expect someone to get back to their best so soon after a broken leg. As such, why wasn't he played in the under 21s for a couple of games? But none of that changes my opinion that he isn't playing well. There maybe loads of reasons why he isn't playing well but he isn't. I don't know how thats being unfair on the guy, he just isn't. If someone had started a thread about how great Lambert was against Liverpool, I would equally have argued against that.
Actually I'm not letting his earlier performances colour my view of him as I haven't seen him since he came back from injury; I missed the Liverpool game and he didn't play in the stoke game. You don't need to mention Cork at all; your view is well documented, so not typing it doesn't mean it is not there. For the record I will state again that I am a fan of both of them.
So he isn't playing well in the 60 minutes of bitty football he has had for the first time in 2-3 months. You really are too harsh in him and trying to say it has nothing to do with your views on Corkie, really doesn't make sense as you have harped on about that for months. Sorry Lff I really like your discussions, but I can't see anything here other than you have it in for Vic. If he gets a run of games (60 mins plus in each) and is still poor, then it would be fair criticism. Him not being played in the 21s is MP's fault not Vics.
I felt that Wanyama looked rusty in his first game back, though even then I'm not sure I would classify it as "appalling." I thought he was one of our better players in the FA Cup Match, though that was such a lousy team performance overall I hesitate to credit or discredit any one individual. He wasn't on the pitch against Liverpool long enough to make a difference one way or the other. There's a reasonable argument that Cork is or at least has been better and should therefore continue to start. I can easily see that argument, though not sure I fully agree. But I just can't agree that Wanyama has been "bad to appalling." The argument as to why he has been bad or whether he needs time to recover so he isn't bad is meaningless if in fact he hasn't been bad. What's more Cork was not particularly good against Liverpool. I cut Cork some slack as he had a tough assignment but the point is there wasn't a big difference in midfield after Cork was subbed (and the game was over anyway).
Of course its MPs fault. All I am saying is that at the moment Vic is poor. There maybe any number of reasons for it but I don't see how anyone can disagree with that as a statement. Luckily for Wanyama, my opinion doesn't matter one jot!
You're correct Lff, he has been poor. Hopefully he will keep improving, although it's that late in the season that I don't think we will see him back at his immense best until after pre-season of next term. Either way, it needs careful managing and to not rush him/damage his confidence.
I think you are right, careful management is the key. Hopefully, we'll be 3 up at some point and we can bring him on to do his thing without any pressure or expectations.
I think you are right, careful management is the key. Hopefully, we'll be 3 up at some point and we can bring him on to do his thing without any pressure or expectations. (And just for fatletiss, that will be 3 up after a Cork hat-trick)
I wouldn't dream of thinking otherwise, I was just responding to your belief that I am infatuated by him. Which of course is ridiculous (do you know what is favourite colour is and his shoe size by the way)
