Shergar had to much speed for the Leger, both his parents only stayed 10f so a race over 14 and a half furlongs was a ridiculous race to go for. How about Dancing Brave who lost over his optimum trip on 2 occasions, Shergar was never beaten at 10 or 12f
The usual lesson here: When horse King Shergar likes loses a race, there's obvious excuses. When a horse they don't like loses a race, it means they're clearly outclassed and not that great.
Kiyonemakibi.....Shergar had beaten all those horses in the Leger in the English and Irish Derby's very easily, as easy as any Derby winner has ever won either of those renewals. He clearly didn't stay
Or had the prerequisite class to carry him through those extra 2 and a bit furlongs.In summary:nice horse,just not classy enough.
DB....Not classy enough??? You're clearly on a wind up! I take it you did not see the big piece on Shergar before the Derby this year, when 5 time Derby winning trainer Sir Micheal Stoute was asked about Shergars ability, he said nothing he has ever trained has come close. Walter Swinburn who won 3 Derbys said nothing he rode gets within a million miles of Shergar, and he rode the unbeaten Lamtarra who won the Derby, KG and Arc. Do you not get it Shergars connections haven't just said he was better, they have said he was streaks ahead, and both Shergars trainer and jockey have trained/ridden plenty of top class horses!
Not classy enough to win a leger.And no i sidestepped that documentary.I like to watch docs on horses that aren't one dimensional.
Dancing Brave was not classy enough to win a Derby or a Breeders Cup Turf, nor was he classy enough to be considered the best his jockey had ever ridden. Pat Eddery has always maintained Golden Fleece was superior
How does a discussion about the 2011 Queen Anne Stakes turn into an argument about the relative merits or demerits of Shergar??
Canford Cliffs was the true star of today - think most were very dissappointed with Frankel and now there will be serious questions asked of his stamina - doubt we will ever see him over a mile!!
Agree with you on Canford Cliffs, TC. A really great horse. But my opinion of Frankel is no different after today's race. It was a very poor ride from his jockey and the horse did exceptionally well to win in the circumstances. I believe he will stay beyond a mile if ridden more sensibly.
Hang on a minute yes CC showed he is a very good horse, but to call him great is very premature, he has beaten a Mare who herself has always come up short against horses of real quality, Zarkava and Makfi beat Goldikova easier, and she wasn't putting up 2 pound overweight against them. The word "great" gets thrown about to much, horses who are great do things that make us say wow, like Frankels 2000 Guineas, Dubai Milleniums Dubai World Cup or Shergars Derby. They do things that look super equine. CC has proved himself top class but he is no great, we see the Canford Cliff's of this world year in year out, very good G1 performers but thats about it! Let's see how he gets on against Frankel, I know Frankel wasn't that impressive today but that was purely down to Queally, you realy think CC would of hung on had he been sent for home with fully 4 furlongs to go, not a chance! It apears Frankel has learnt how to settle and HC I'm sure will tell Tom Queally to wait until the last 2 furlongs to press the button and when he does Camford Cliffs will have no answer
Arkle would have beaten all of them with an elephant riding, over any distance in any going. FACT EOS. Don't let's go there folks. Frankel was disappointing today I have to say. For a moment he took my breath away when he swooped past the pacemaker and went clear; but I thought another 50yds and he would have lost. That wasn't boredom. He would not have picked up again had they gone by him. I'll have to watch the race again but I suspect that run has HC worried. He certainly looked it towards the end of the race. having gone so clear he could have been excused coasting home to a narrow victory but he was going backwards towards the finish. My immediate reaction was "Now fully exposed confirming Timeform's rating of 142 as total nonsense". I hope he proves me wrong.
Ron I'd actually say Frankel was impressive considering the ride he was given, most horses would have lost if there jockey had settled them and then pressed the button at the 4 pole! Can you honestly think of any other miler in the last 20 years who was sent on to win his/her race with fully 4 furlongs to go, I'd be pretty sure CC and Goldikova wouldn't be capable of overcoming a ride like that, and I don't even think Rock Of Gibralter would have. If they go to the Sussex they just need to wait and they will do CC for pace in the last 2 furlongs, but if they ride him like they did today then I can see him getting beat. He is an outstanding horse but they are getting to cockey in his ability running him like they have been
My own feeling? He's probably the best 7f horse we've seen for a very long time!! Well that was what I said 4 weeks ago on 606 and yesterday's race only confirmed it for me. As regards Canford Cliffs/Goldikova the best horse won. Don't understand all these comments on Peslier being 2lbs overweight. If Goldikova carried more weight than Canford Cliffs it was because she's older and was giving weight for age. (We've had that argument a million times and WFA is a pretty tried and tested system).
Good morning, Bustino. Good to hear from you- and welcome to the site. Ref. Peslier's overweight, BBC said his riding boots were a pound too heavy. Maybe he'd cr-pped in them when Canford Cliffs came to challenge!
Thanks Tamerlo. It took a while to find this place. Unless you were unreasonably partisan you had to fancy Canford Cliffs to beat Goldikova. He must be 5 lengths better than Paco Boy, and as good as Goldikova is she wasn't 5 lengths better than Paco Boy. Yes I'd heard about the boots, hadn't realised they'd be a 1lb more, but that's only a 1/3length so she's still got a fair bit to make up.
Bustino- in actual fact she carried 2 pounds overweight at 8st 13lbs, but in all fairness I don't think it affected the result. Personally I think Goldie is better on a flatter or turning track, but her consistency and fine effort yesterday need no excuses. Didn't Canford Cliffs look magnificent in the paddock?
Goldikova should have been carrying 8 11 yet she was carrying 8 13, and lost by less than a lengh so I definately think the over weight cost her the race, and anyone who doesn't is deluding themselves. On the form of yesterdays race, considering the weights I don't see that Canford Cliff's effort was any better than Paco Boy's 12 months ago
I can't agree with you there, Shergar. Based on the accepted 3lbs a length at a mile, carrying 2 lbs less shouldn't have turned the official one length margin into a victory for Goldie. For my money, she wouldn't have won at levels and was second best on the day.
