I do have to start off by saying although I do support Liverpool, I love football more than anything and I follow many clubs with interest. I'm not trying to WUM or gloat here. 1. Failure to get CL is unfortunately a huge loss. Your purchasing power drops to the level of "potential stars that might one day be good enough for CL but aren't quite there or tested yet". One season may not affect that given the size and reputation of United. But as far as reputation goes, Liverpool has a massive one too and that did us no good these past few windows. Players right now are in their twenties and don't appreciate history or reputation. Its about the money, the fame, and the spotlight. Without CL for a few years, younger stars don't understand the absolute privilege it is to play for a massive club like United/Liverpool. Take Mkhitaryan for example. Turned down Liverpool for Borussia. Even 10 years ago you'd never see that happen. Everything relies on those 4 spots these days. 2. Fergie will never be replaced. You can build on his success though. A manager like Shankly will never be seen again by Liverpool but Paisley carried the torch further for us. This is what United have to keep in mind. Dont look to overtake Fergie now. Look to continue his work. Is Moyes the right man to do this? I'm not sure he is. He's negative. He makes silly statements that he shouldn't be making at a club like United. He plays boring football. He made mistakes in his first transfer window and refuses to fix them in the winter. It reminds me exactly of Hodgson in fact. We were on the wrong path to being better and the decision to sack him was the right one. However you dont want to get into a Chelsea spiral because you haven't got infinite resources. Who else is available? Do you have to work with what you have? Questions for the Glazers, who might be looking to sell soon. I'm not sure but it seems now would be a good time before you lost more value.
The club will swing the axe well before it even approaches the state reached by the scousers. . It is not the getting to the CL or winning trophies or even the odd title. It is about having the right man with the right footballing philosophy. It has never been about getting a new Fergie. He was a one off from a different era managing to adapt to the new one. I am not sure Moyes isn't the right one. He has to be given time. It is too early to say the job is too big for him. He should have been given more help but the arrival of a ****ing useless prat like Woodward didn't help. I said in summer that the tactics used by the club in trying to "bargain" like buying in a morrocan shuk was moronic and was going to backfire so it proved.
Cardiff fan: You think you got problems? We were struggling in division one when Sam Hamaan took over and got us promoted via the play offs to the championship telling us we will get to the premiership as we were a big club. Since then we expected to finish in the top two every year but it was not as easy as it looked. Now we are here we are being told we will improve and be in the top four in seasons to come providing we secure our status this year. Really we should be happy to be here and at least with a fair chance of staying as most teams at the bottom but we are not happy, we have lost far too many games so far. That is the point, everyone expects your club to win every game and be top every season and with good cause and you just had a run of 6 games won. My club is lucky to be here but your club is the reason we wanted to be here. When the top sides play in the champions league the whole country wants them to win. Manchester United will always be one of the greatest football teams ever. jck
You don't have the god given right to win everything in sight you know Fergie started life at man utd for those who can remember much the same as moyes, In fact moyes is doing better than what fergie did when he took man utd over. There are too many youngsters that dont know anything other than the fergie years and most of them are not local and glory hunters. I suspect most of the older local supporters who knew life before fergie would understand better what moyes is going through, they remember man utd getting relegated or fighting for points trying to reach a European spot, Everyone has bad seasons its just that these youngsters have never had them for a long time which is out of the normal course of most clubs. So yes this is bringing fans back to the real world that Man utd don't have the god given right to win and if they get beat then they should show some respect and not blame the manager who is in his first season...
fergies first full season saw United achieve their highest league finish in decades. Not sure how thats similar to Moyes' first season.
We don't know where moyes will finish yet.we are only half way through the season..but fergie was struggling at the start..
Unfortunately sitting at today's game reminded me of the performances during the Sexton/Atkinson eras and it's not a nice memory !
This is what I said earlier. The last thing we want is the era of sexton and Fat Ron when we never knew what sort of team will turn up. We might win the odd cup but too ****ing inconsistent in the league to win anything. I remember the time under fat Ron when we won the first 10-12 matches to then totally collapse to mid table at the end... It does not surprise me anymore that we lose at OT. I expected some bumpy ride but I admit it is proving worse. I've got the feeling it is going to get much much worse before it gets better. In a way I feel sorry for those who have only known the premiership era. It must be a huge shock to them. I honestly cannot see how Moyes can be 100% to blame. He is not Fergie - no one is and I do not believe any other manager could have done that much better (may be a few extra points) with these same players. We'll never know for sure. But not bringing new and fresh talent was a massive mistake. SAF was a one off and is one that doesn't exist in the modern era. Wenger is probably the last of the breed and Arsenal will probably suffer the same trauma when he leaves. Most big clubs recruit and sack managers after a few years. City, Chelsea, barca, Real, juventus, Roma, Bayern all do that. We should give Moyes a bit more time. When we said it is the end of an era when Fergie retired, this what we meant...
But he wasn't always at the top after that in the early years was he? I am not saying that Moyes is a second Fergie and we may well have to sack him, but we have to give him more time than just one season.
Really? So we'll never see a successful long term manager again? Bit short sighted that. There will be others come along, whether that will be at Man Utd or during our life times is a different question.
Newcastle fan in peace Very well said. Each club has a culture and a heritage that matters to fans. I'm a fellow dinosaur, just wiithout the luxury of having seen my team win anything for a long time. That said though, we also have an expectation to see attacking football and get restless when we don't. When Fat Sam was our manager the results weren't that bad (they weren't great either) but our style of play was awful and that was probably the main reason he was sacked. We went through a similar thing last season when we seemed to revert to a long ball game. That bothered the fans ever bit as much as the results. However, we also had to recognise that Pardew hadn't been dealt the best hand with a wafer thin squad and a lot of injuries and that he needed time to bring in more quality and see them settel. I'd like to think that this year we are seeing some benefits from that. In the same way I think you need to give Moyes time to succeed or fail, and just as importantly time to grow into being a Manchester United manager instead of an Everton manager, playing the Manchester United way. No matter what happens you wont drop that low. The top 8 are well clear of 10th, with Southampton still to decide which group they are going to join. In many ways this is the perfect season to give him room to learn and develop. No matter how bad it gets it wont be disastrous.
While the sentiment of attacking football is nice, Utd haven't been playing good flowing edge of your seat attacking (consistent) football for years. It seems along time ago when Utd used attack teams into submission. This dull boring football hasn't just appeared since Moyes turned up. The 'attack attack' chants were being shouted when Ferguson decided to play RVN up top on his own and deployed a five man midfield. As Moyes was Ferguson's choice as replacement the 6 year contract was probably his recommendation as well. One of the last things Ferguson said before leaving was give the new manager time. Probably with good reason, he knew the state of the team he was leaving behind and the job Moyes was in for. Recommending 6 year deal might have been out of guilt for the shower he was leaving Moyes. Moyes wasn't my first choice, but sacking him now would/could be a backwards step. Especially as I don't think there is anyone available. Now having said that, the biggest disappointment/annoyance is the manner of the defeats which Moyes can take some of the blame for.
Whilst I agree that the defensive style has not appeared overnight, it is not entirely accurate to retrace back to the days of RVN. I saw those seasons and games and understand to some extent that the midfield was packed, but you cannot compare a midfield of Scholes, Keane, Giggs, Beckham, Veron to our current midfield that lacks craft, guile, and inventiveness. Plus RVN wasn't on his own up front always, his first season Solskjaer played at least half the games (scoring 17). Season after, 02/03 and Solskjaer made 29 appearances (21 starts) Giggs scored 8 from 32 - so a midfield with Giggs on the left and Beckham on the right is not especially defensive, add into that Scholes and it's hard to accept that the possible 5 man midfield was boring. I think 03/04 was poor - but then again Fergie in his wisdom signed and played Djemba-Djemba and Kleberson! The antidote to this poor midfield, which still featured Giggs, Scholes, and Keane was a young lad who got a few run outs from the subs bench. (Ronaldo) Plus he did try to bolster the attack, not that successful with Forlan & Saha. 04/05 saw the addition of Rooney and Ronaldo gaining more games and RVN only made 16 appearances that season anyway, so hardly a team built around him that year. 05/06 RVN, Rooney, and Ronaldo were regulars - possibly the midfield wasn't as glamorous/strong. (Think Park & Fletcher) Yes a few struggling seasons but hardly boring or defensive with the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, Rooney, and Ronaldo providing a supporting cast for RVN!
Agree. I don't think it will serve any purpose in doing that. In a way, we could say Fergie and the club put him in that situation. I suspect the club will soon write off this season. The long list of injuries has confirmed what we all supected. That the team although champions was playing well above its real level through the presence of fergie. Now that he has gone, the team is playing to its true level and let's face it that level is crap. The one major disappointment was seeing kagawa play so badly yesterday. Fletcher (no fault of his) is not at his optimum match fitness. We really need a young Keane or Scholes out there. No spark, no ideas. Deservedly beaten. I am quite confident United will get back to the top with or without Moyes. The time this would take will depend how on quickly the greedy owners put their hands in their pocket and how quickly we get a more competent CEO than that useless prat Woodward. United is in the **** at the moment and the last thing they should ****ing do is trying to get a "bargain" or try to save a few millions. The whole world knows that United are desperate and no one is going to sell them players on the cheap.
I think Moyes missed a trick with Kagawa. With Rooney out, the FA and league cups, would have be the ideal time to play Kagawa through the middle to see what he can actually do.
Maybe it is my imagination, and/or a longing for a return to proper wingers and when Utd seemed to play at a much higher tempo, but when Queiroz started having a big say in the tactics, Utd played in a more measured European style (probably due to the lack of success in the CL) which involved a five man midfield. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that period was mind numbingly dull, far from it, but that was the first time I can recall the 'attack attack attack' chants.
I think you're spot on, what we are lacking is playing at a higher tempo - though to be fair the triangle passing in our own half between our back four is obviously complete football!
