And herein lieth the problem....I've watched United since 1963 and my 3 boys have been brought up with an education about the club, playing for United is not just about the winning it is the manner or style you do it in. The legacy of the busby babes and the team post Munich is that we turned out teams who played attacking and entertaining football, with wingers or wide men being very much part of the equation. (Scanlon, Connelly, Morgan, Best, Anderson, Moir, Coppell, Hill - to name but a few.) We can't (don't) play defensively, this was one of Moyes early mistakes - it's bad enough getting beat at home but the manner of it is more worrying, generally we go one or two goals down before the penny drops and we decide to attack. As for the idea of losing games being logical - perhaps you want to watch a team like Arsenal that won the title with the classic scoreline of 1-0 to the Arsenal and chants of boring boring Arsenal ringing around most stadiums. Please feel free to sign up to watch a club win things in a manner that sends its own fans to sleep - personally that's not what thrills me. Secondly being born and bred in Manchester I'd like to see some aspect of local lads in the team, rather than shelling out millions for players that are mercenaries with no idea of the clubs history or the notion of loyalty or appreciation for the fans. Fair enough I might be wishing for a by-gone age - but I'll never settle for a Manchester United team that plays unattractive football even if they win things, aim higher - go for winning and entertaining. I often say one of the best games I saw at OT was when we lost 5-3 I think it was to WBA Boxing Day or something like that many moons ago. Sure I would have preferred the win but I'd take that any day over say the 2-0 victory over Crystal Palace this year. I realise I am a dinosaur with odd views, for those who want success at all costs then perhaps just follow whoever is winning currently and change each season, good plan.
I agree with you entirely ... I've been watching Leicester City since 1969; we've had our ups and downs, even some glory on a much lesser scale than you lot (under Martin O'Neil) - but I'd take the Jimmy Bloomfield side of the early seventies where we had Frank Worthington, Keith Weller, Lenny Glover, Peter Shilton etc because we were bloody good to watch ... a team full of entertainers who could beat anyone on their day but might also be beat ... football first and foremost must be about entertainment not just winning (especially at the cost of that entertainment)... Fossefilbertosaurus
Just another era coming to an end mate, although good wingers Hill and Coppell played in a poor Utd era that saw the club relegated so to compare them to Best isn't right and Utd played boring ugly football under Sexton. But at least you saw your club through its best years ever Ged which is better than most eh mate.
Absolutely. We need to get back to that certainty that we had during the premiership era. I don't mean winning trophies. I mean a certainty that we will have attacking football at OT and teams will be put under pressure and will have to have had a very good game to go away with anything. We had some luck with an exceptional group of academy players emerging at the same time but we need to give these local lads a chance. In a way that is what made United exciting. Assembling expensive players to win one or two titles like City or Chelsea is not necessarily wrong but I agree with you about youth. If United can give one or two academy players a chance then they should give it a go. It is not being defeatist to say the title is gone for this season but it looks that top 4 is now a massive ask with the way the team is playing. I said that if City get its away form together then everyone can forget it and fight for top 4. United may well finish in its current position and play in the Europa but it seems that everyone have underestimated the contribution of SAF as the manager.
First and foremost I would always take a win over a defeat. However I would always prefer to see us play attacking, entertaining football. The frustration with Moyes is exactly this, even if hes winning its done is such a poor manner. I dont ever see him changing either. My post wasnt actually aimed at you as such, I quoted your post but it just turned into a rant about how some United fans seem to be hoping we fail for some mind boggling reason.
I think you lot are being a bit over the top if I'm honest. Yes you are some way off the squads of City, Chelsea and Arsenal but with the finances you're supposedly willing to spend that will change in a year or so. I suppose a year might be too long for some of the spoilt plastics though. You're in a much better position than we were when we went off the boil. The main problem is David Moyes. Do you wait for a couple of years, accept he's not good enough and have little success while your prestige wavers, or bite the bullet at the end of the season? Or gamble and see if he succeeds given endless time?
No, we give him this season and next. That's a fair time to allow someone to do their job how they want it and if we don't then finish top four we accept he's not up to it and try someone else. I agree with many on here, too many bits to reference, so I can't really pick through it all except to say to GED I agree completely about the vision of local lads playing for the side, however we need some gilt edged, finished article, players right now. We DO need to spend big on two, maybe three, top drawer players and then also bring back the likes of Powell to go with them. United are my local side also, which is why I will always cut Welbeck more slack than I will Nani for instance. A word about Morrison though. He's bad news. Not worth the mither, trust me. We do not miss Ravel Morrison.
Close mate but as far as I'm aware both Hill and Coppell joined after we'd been relegated. I would put them in the era which saw us start to improve. Until Docherty was sacked and then we went back again. Sexton was like Moyes, pragmatic and not very United, and it cost him his job. He did win the last few games on the bounce of his time in charge though and signs were things were starting to click. He still got sacked though, who knows he might have been a success.
Ruff, would you give Moyes 2 years regardless off how bad we do this season? Lets say we lose our next 3 or 4 premier league games and tumble down the table to sit 12/13/14th in the table ( not sure thats possible as I havent looked at the table ). Do we just keep plodding along with the mindset 'he might turn out good'? What does he have to do to bite the bullet? Hes doing petty bad right now and so far has shown no signs of improvement. Hes halfway through his first season and changed nothing for the better. Other, more capable managers, come in and make changes that make sense and progress the club. Pep at Bayern is a prime example. Fergie when he joined United is another who implemented the foundations of his 'plan' for United from the moment he stepped into his office. All I have seen Moyes do is blindly sack our entire coaching staff and then just try and copy Fergies game plan of recent years. My guess is he just shouts a lot at half time because I imagine thats what he thought Fergie did. The one thing I dont like is how its believed that Moyes has the perfect job, for the near future at least. He wont get sacked no matter what. I dont think there is a person alive who wouldnt want such a job for for everyone but Moyes, such a job is merely a pipe dream. They simply dont exist.
In his press interview with the sunday papers he's basically said he doubts Rooney will sign a contract if we fail to make the CL...
He's got a six year contract, I would imagine something dire will have to occur for him to be sacked. Look, we're only just in January and the transfer window is open, he needs a couple of players. If the club back him and we sign a couple then we will also need two more in summer but I would expect to see some improvement. I think failing top four this season is not the end of the world, if he then fails to get it at the end of next it should be looked at. It is all very well saying this team won the league last year, I know it did. But this fails to take into any account that the previous manager ran the club, all of it, top to bottom, for a quarter of a century. That is a huge change, massive, for ALL concerned. There is bound to be a lull, there simply has to be. I get that, I find it weird that others don't. This is not FIFA 2014 or Football Manager or whatever GAME people use for reference, it's real life. There is the factor of human nature. I am more than willing to give Moyes this season and next and two transfer windows, if we're **** and showing no signs of kicking on at that point then he goes. We have no divine right whatsoever to expect and demand continued unbroken success. At all.
Fail to get top 4 Rooney goes Ability to attract the players we desperately need (top quality, ready made articles) weakens go into next season with a severely weakened side. Rooney is replaced by player x (not Mata or Barkley as neither would be attainable without spending big money or having CL football ) results continue to suffer, football is aimless and we continue to have no gameplan a year from now we are even lower, further from the top and reports of unrest from other top players becomes a daily thing. Finish nowhere near the top 4 again. More top players leave. Moyes is sacked. ------------------------------------------------------ Now the above may never happen, for all we know Moyes could go on and win every single one of our remaining games, win the FA Cup and the Champions League beating bayern 10-0 in the final. Rooney signs a lifetime contract and we sign both Ronaldo and Messi in the summer. It could happen, its no impossible but I doubt i somehow. Hes more likely to miss out on top 4, lose our best player, fail to sign anyone even close to being good enough and do even worse next season. Hes shown literally nothing that suggests otherwise. The 6 year contract was completely stupid. If anything it tells Moyes not to worry about anything because no matter what you have a job. Perhaps some pressure to at least meet a minimum requirement would suit him better. Of course if hes uncomfortable with pressure then he can **** off.
It is too early to pass judgement on Moyes. He has been with United only a few months. He is getting used to the pressure and even though he is an experienced prem manager he was taken by surprise by the sheer following and expectations. He has clearly made some mistakes. The obvious one that comes to mind is the immediate sacking of the senior coaching staff. Looking back, it is easy to see that these people would have provided some continuity for the players. And that for them it is not 100% change after Fergie. But then Moyes was doing what 99% of managers do: bring their own teams in. Then Woodward has been a useless ****ing prat. And the glazers if they know what's good for them should open their wallet because some of the players are simply not good enough to play for United. Moyes could well settle and adjust his tactics to the expectations of the club and its fans. It is the biggest club in the world with the largest global following. He simply has no choice but to be at the top. He has to challenge for the title and every trophy every season which means that he has to go into every match expecting to win it. The current situation which has City as the dominant team in the premiership is unacceptable if United has ambitions to retain its global position.
All of the above, both scenarios, is just guesswork, plain and simple. So, Rooney ****'s off if we don't make top four, without taking into account that he could have been in any way responsible himself for that failure? In which case we're better off without him, simple. I very much doubt it would happen but I genuinely, 100 ****ing per cent, would rather we were in league one than have player power like that. That is the absolute honest truth. Are people genuinely telling me that no footballer would want to come and play for us if we don't get into the champions league? Seriously? What planet do some of you exist on? That is utter ****e. We may not get the like of player who now go to Man City because of the project or whatever it's called but players will always come to United. Look, Moyes wasn't my choice as manager. If anything he was fourth at best. So, I'm NOT saying he's the man for the job and I'm right and those saying he should be sacked are wrong. But where I am right is that now he's the manager he has to be given a chance, sacking him is not right and will not be the magic wand that makes all of this good again because my first, second, third and fifth choices aren't available so who exactly is it we bring it to turn it round?
If Rooney goes life goes on... We should try to keep him but if he leaves United will keep going. We should not be in a position where the club's future is at the mercy of one player. Sometimes you do have to go lower to come back stronger. United came back stronger and fresher after relegation 40 years ago hope it doesn't come to that.
True. The huge panic and doom and gloom is misplaced. So United is having to write off the title for this season. So? United has no divine right to win the title with a crap ****ty team when it us obvious that there are better teams around. If City can climb to the top by throwing millions at it then I can't see why United with its resources (assuming that the ****ing owners are not blinded by their short term greed) shouldn't be able to recover whatever happens this season.
Of course players would come. Whether they are the right player, or players of the quality we need ( right now ) is up for debate.
You got this almost right UIR, The right player is the one we have always bought, the quality we need comes after.Everyone want`s us to buy this world class player or that one, they don`t seem to think if they will fit into the team or style of play, remember Veron, massive signing bit of a dud but world class in other teams/leagues, Cantona, bit of a rebel who nobody really wanted but was the switch that turned our team on. You don`t have to sign the supposed top players in the world to be the top team.
What we don't want is the era of fat Ron and Sexton when players were brought in to the club who were flavour of the month (davenport, Birtles Brazil and the likes) who couldn't fit and were totally daunted by playing for United. Fellaini? If we get quality players for each position mixed with local talent, United should be ok.
