Delegator may have had a chance of being a top class miler, had he been trained by a half decent trainer. SBS has been out of form for many years now. You could give him an exact clone of Nijinsky, and it would be running in class 2 handicaps by the time it's 4. The future for Godolphin is with Al Zarooni
Hi, Shergar. I think you're being a little unkind to Goldikova. 16 wins, 3 seconds, 2 thirds, and once unplaced is a tremendous record- and she's maintained her form for five years! Tell me another mare who's done that at the top level! If she's not special, then it doesn't say much for 'fillies' throughout history. I happen to agree with you that Sea The Stars was special also, but he only raced effectively for one year plus- and he didn't exactly win a vintage Derby, Guineas, or Arc, did he? Personally, I think both of them are a bit overrated- 133 may be a bit high for Goldie and to rate Sea The Stars on 140- the same as Vaguely Noble- is wishful thinking at its worst.
Tamerlo......Goldikova's consitancy has to be admired, but the majority of the G1s she has won have been weak races for G1s, yes she has won 3 BC, but prize money aside turf races in America are as weak as they get, do you realy believe the likes of Dangerous Midge and Debussy would win a top G1s over here? No chance Goldikova has only won so many races because she has been giving the opportunity by her connections to remain in training for so long, so I don't buy that argument. There is every reason to suggest that horses such as Sea The Stars, New Approach, Rock Of Gibralter etc etc could have easily got to 14 G1s had they been given the ooportunity to race til they were 6. Rock Of Gibralter already had 7 by the end of his 3yo season. Goldikova is highly consistant and has amazibg versatility, she can handle any track, but i still believe her very best performances are only very good, not great. Even the bookies know she is beatable hence the odds against on offer for this race. A great horse would not go off odds against in arguably a 2 horse race, her main rival being a horse who was only good enough to finish 3rd in the Guineas! Very good not great
There's no point in arguing with Shergar about Goldikova, who is indeed a great horse. She's 6yo now and who knows if she can keep up the form of the last three years against a horse like Canford Cliffs, but I'll be hoping that she does, I'm not ashamed to admit I almost jumped a few feet in the air seeing her win the Breeder's Cup Mile yet again last year.
Kiyonemakibi....that is my opinion, I have agreed that Goldikova is a very good horse, and that her consistancy has to be admired, but I don't believe her best ever performances are performances of a great horse.* I suggest you rewatch her 2 races against Zarkava, and you will understand the point I'm making. Zarkava was a great fille, arguably the best we've ever seen. I just don't believe Goldikova's best gets anywere near Zarkava's best. The ratings system also fully agrees with my opinion rating Goldikova as a 128 performer, I accept ratings are just opinions, but there Is no way Goldikova could be given a high rating, a rating of a great horse, when she's scraping home against the likes of Paco Boy.* Yes she may have won 14 G1s, but I've always been of the belief that you never know quite how good a horse actually is until there beat, and there's an obvious pattern in her form, that when she comes up against a real good horse, she gets beat comprehensively, a la Zarkava and last season Makfi had no bother brushing her aside.* She can continue to beat the run of the mill G1 performers like Paco Boy, and win these egg and spoon G1s over in America but if she faces off against a horse of real quality she will get beat, it's as simple as that. Surely you will be having your house on this "great" horse Goldikova at Royal Ascot at 6/4. Most people on this board and bookmakers alike are of the opinion that the race will be tight with CC, so does that make CC a great horse aswell? * Take it from me if any truely great horse was taking on CC at Royal Ascot, they would be long odds on *
Shergy you are on form this morning, you've made me nearly spit my coffee out laughing when I read the 'win these egg and spoon G1s over in America' comment...The Breeders Cup Mile is an egg and spoon race then
Lol as much as i liked "The Rock" most of his group 1,s bordered on the appalling.And he couldn't even win a supposed weak turf race like the BC mile.Travelling over to the states year after year and winning these supposed egg and spoon races is incredibly hard to do...ask AOB.
The majority of turf races in America are egg and spoon races, to put things into perspective about how dire American turf racing is, the Arlington million winner Debussy is running in the Prince Of Wales stakes this week and is a 66/1 rank outsider. The Breeders Cup turf races may be worth a fortune, but from a form perspective there dire, as the best American horses run on dirt, the main competition in those races comes from European runners. Come on guys Dangerous Midge a G1 winner, get real! As for Rock Of Gibralter he was just unlucky, he missed the break from a wide draw, and got stuck behind a wall of horses in a year when the mile race had a massive field, so he wasn't able to come with his run until late on, though everyone knows he was easily the best horse in that race, and he is a far better horse than any horse Goldikova has ever beaten at the BC. ROG won 7 G1s by the end of his 3yo season, compare that to Goldikova who only had 2, and had ROG remained in training until he was 6 and ran in the same number of G1s as Goldikova he would have easily had 20+ G1 victorys
Kentucky.....Canford Cliffs is not the best Goldikova has ever faced, knowere near in fact, Zarkava would have left CC for dead over any trip, just like she did to Goldikova in the French 1000 Guineas! Please don't insult me by suggesting Goldikova could ever be considered the greatest miler ever, Brigadier Gerrard could have beat her by as far as he liked, without even coming off the bridle, as could El Gran Senor and ROG
Kentucky...How can you even question my knowledge of racing, when you can even suggest Goldikova was the greatest Miler ever, that's just ridiculous, if she was so great she would not be odds against in any race. I suggest you do abit of research on great milers such as Brigadier Gerard and El Gran Senor!
Can't fault your logic Shergar except I'm sure you'll agree the last paragraph is pure speculation. We never know what might have happened. Maybe Goldi was a relatively late maturer. Look what Harbinger achieved as a 3yo; not a lot.
Memo to Shergar: Horses are allowed to sometimes be slow to really come into their own, and to fulfil their full potential at an age older than 3. And the whole 'Zarkava beat Goldikova twice!' thing ignores two points (well, three, one that Zarkava was an excellent horse, so losing to her is no disgrace) - the first of those races was very early on in Goldikova's 3yo career and as mentioned, she only really blossomed later in her 3yo season. And the second was over a distance which was too far for Goldikova. Goldikova is not the best miler ever (there is no best miler ever to be honest, it's a crazy thing to try and pick one horse), but she's tough as they come, and a horse like her should be appreciated, it would be very dull if the only horses considered as great were Classic winners or horses that blazed a trail as 3yo and then retired.
ROG was a class act, yes he did beat some poor fields, but they were no worse than the fields Goldikova has beat. He did beat Hawkwing twice and I think we can all agree that Hawk Wing was a class act on his day. You also must remember that ROGs ability was never exposed, his only defeat was under extreme circumstances, when he missed the break from a wide draw and couldn't get a run, until it was to late, even then though we seen what a class act he was as he made up so much ground when he got the run, and was narrowly denied! Goldikova on the other hand has been exposed far to many times, with no excuses whatsoever, she was simply not good enough to beat Zarkava, and she was not good enough to beat Makfi. There is no horse ROG ever raced against that you could say was better than him that's the difference. The Rock was the best of his generation, Goldikova wasn't
