ah the usual old cobblers speculation and slating of CAS Trust So anyway we were contacted by the media several times and refused comment on the takeover, so far from contacting anyone We have stood for election and have an open accountable group that is regulated by a national body, with frequent public meetings. We are trying to be a positive force for the good of CAFC as much as we possibly can. We have subsequently had contact with the press regarding our ACV application for the Valley and quite rightly so (although there piece was somewhat confused and linked incorrectly to the takever) the application as I am sure you know was submitted with club support in July - indeed we waited for several weeks as we were asked by the club to do so while a potential takeover was in the offing. We have never made any statement that claims to represent Charlon fans views on the takeover or indeed a possible move, what we would like is for Charlton fans to have a say if the Valley were sold separately to CAFC, and that is what ACV gives, nothing more nothing less. I don't understand why people see the need to attack us for that but its a free country I guess. Thanks R PS how anyone could suggest we would try to buy the football club via our subsriptions I do not know, trusts have bought clubs through fund raising schemes and consortium building, but hey don't let that ruin a great post for you
I don't see why your getting all pissy. The implication when I read your post elsewhere was that the press contacted the trust for a reaction to the proposed takeover. Why would they do that? What was said between you and then press cannot be challenged but I came away thinking that the trust has usurped the supporters club, which is a bit unsettling. Your a political party with aims and objectives not the supporters club-whatever function they perform, it is, or should be not be political. The inference I got was that you would not make comment to the press at the moment but would respond in the future. Perhaps I read you post wrong. I understand that your largest turnout at a public meeting was about 25 people. Are those 25 representative of the 'good of Cafc' ? if so how? You are probably looking to buy the football club for a nominal amount-which is pie eyed optimism given that the club may soon be sold for 30million. You mention consortium building and fund raising, shouldn't you really have that in place before you bid??? I can't really understand how you can expect to raise funds, what are you going to do, a sponsored walk? What consortiums are you referring to? Do you think you have right to run your campaign during this time,? (and I notice that it has been stepped up recently) filing ACV objections, delaying the sale to potential investors which could cost this club to lose those investors, and ultimately millions of pounds and a new bright future? What gives? Is your campaign not ill conceived and potentially damaging at this time? Let the big boys with the cash and the know how run this club. if you want to walk around Woolwich High Street with a placard ten by all means do that. I just think you ought to take a step back and not file silly obstructions to stay at the Valley, that many CAFC fans would accept as fate whether we go or stay.
you have made numerous comments and statements that are simply untrue - the trust hates the board etc you said we approached the press, we didn't they approached us, you didn't know you just assume it.. you say we are usurping the supporters club, there is no supporters club, I expect that is why they approach us, we turned down talksport, and BBC sport, why because we have no interest in filling air time on takeover speculation. Had you asked me that and I am on every message board, and publicise our email address I could have told you. We are open and honest about attendance support etc we have made no claims otherwise, other than the facts And sorry but I say at as I see it, I am not a politician, I and the rest of the people who support us 840, our network over 4000 including at least 1500 who read our emails every week, and around 10,000 hits per month on our website, is huge outside of a serious problem - Swansea only have 1000 - we are simply Charlton fans who genuinely want to help our club. If you want to ask me something, have a debate fair play and I will answer, but put up what you did and i will call it what it is, cobblers. A bunch of made up assumptions, half truths, twisted comments to a personal agenda rant. One week people say we only have 100 members, then we reach 840 and you say we don't have a thousand, etc etc Some people say we are too close to the Board, that we can't have lunch with Richard Murray, the next say we hate the board, its Murrays minions one week, Rick's rough riders the next. If you want to have a sensible conversation fair play to you let's do that, how about it?
regarding funds, we would raise them the same way other trusts, Swansea, Portsmouth, etc have done, why is that so hard to comprehend? Our member subs are not for that purpose. And why should we not run ACV at this time or any other, why is that up to you? 1900 Charlton fans support it so far. The reason it has been stepped up is because our council has exceeded the 8 week timeframe set out in the legislation, by more than double which is more than any other LA has taken so far by a considerable margin, without a good reasonable explanatin, they have said they are changing the process for ACVs yet in August they granted two, does that not concern you?
there you go again one minute we approached the media the next we rebufffed them, and should or shouldn't have, which is it? Of course we are concerned about a takeover being in the best interests of Charlton Athletic, if the press want to hear from us as a supporters' trust which aims to give Charlton fans a voice, we will do that but at the right time, I am sorry you don't like any of this but I am at a loss to understand what you would like?
sorry one more little thing: you mentioned should we not have a consortium set up before we bid? The idea of ACV is that is triggered (if granted) when the ground is put up for sale separately to the football club. We would have 6 weeks to give a response, and 6 months to submit a bid.
Razil 4 posts all saying roughly the same thing - methinks though does protest to much If the dice fall the way we fear and that the new owners want us to move to a brand new purpose built 40,000 seater stadium and away from the Valley then that is their right. If you decide to prevent that by invoking your ACV rights you will merely delay them, not stop them, and probably make them less amenable as owners to the fans of the football club that they have acquired inadvertently as part of their property development business. If the deal means lead occupancy of a bigger stadium and the funds to get to the top tier then it must be worth considering. I personally would miss the Valley and what it stands for in respect of Charlton Athletic. However, if the guys from the Valley party had to settle for a brand new stadium with Charlton writ all over it rather than a return to the Valley then I guess they may have taken that as a second best offer. What we want to see is a commercial deal that protects the club and not another rerun of the Ricoh Arena. We should look to maximise the club's position.
I was under the impression that we still have supporters club branches like Eltham for example? We also have message boards and fans forums, websites ITV NOT 606 etc but the press came to you, you are a political party, however much you want to hide it, you have agendas that are not representative (yet or perhaps never will be) of CAFC's main body of supporters given that nobody has asked them and the situation your speculating has yet to arise. . I am sure the press just did an internet search and came up with you, but surely you must disqualify yourself anyway because surely your filed petition already suggest that the answer to moving away is clear. I sat and listened to the trust at a recent home game telling people to sign the petition because otherwise houses would be built on the valley site. This was reckless and untrue. A back to the Valley campaign was used to support your campaign, yet the two are unrelated and you seem to be kidding people that that they are. By Filing a ACV, without any real consultation you are affecting ALL Charlton supporters. What are you going to do with it? Simple question. If the majority favour a move away, (an I mean a majority of CAFC fans that are asked in a democratic and totally transparent way) will you withdrawn the petition? I simply don't want what your selling. Your selling timeshares and I do think are not qualified to run a football club. All we have to go by is what we read on CL, which most of us are banned from, given that we dare to challenge the established hierarchy, most of the comments on the board are totally ridiculous about the board and I have never heard you and some of those that I know to be trust members put any of them straight. What I am trying to do is understand what your really trying to do, at the moment as I see it, it is not for the good of the club but your own self promotion.
sorry working and didn't want to miss anything.. We won't invoke unless the fans want us to, simple, if manu liverpool, birmingham, blackburn and others have this why shouldnt Charlton fans have a voice in the future of their club?
there you go again, we want to hide it... throwing accusations around you better ask them, and no there is not official main branch of CASC or much else, we have the fans forum and groups can call themselves official or independent but as such no supporters' club, that is my limited understanding and before my/our time (so you can't blame us for that either) we have agendas that are not representative, prove it? another opinion of yours presented as fact. In actual fact we have conducted a fair amount of research finding out what fans think, not just a quick and easy self selecting e-poll but standing in the street talking to real fans before matches with surveys - not what you wanted to hear I suspect. I have answered the point about comments on the stall on ACV made you mention, way way back and you honestly think the supporter's trust should go on all the message boards and defend the club board from every slur? honestly? You can say what you like and not buy, that's the beauty of this, no one is forcing it, no one claims otherwise And we are self promoting yet we turn down chances to be on the radio with Danny Murphy, erm OK and are you going to blame CAS Trust for you being banned from other forums too? or perhaps the weather, global warming or the campaign for carbon reduction, or something else? You can have the impression you like about the supporters' club, I'm just telling you what I know. And while you are at it go and talk to Badger (who runs Eltham) and ask him what he thinks of CAS Trust.. we have helped them and all the other groups gain members and publicise their events, but don't take my word for it, email me and I'll forward your email on to Dom. We have helped Valley Gold too, ask them what they think of us. Cheers
@ RAZIL Your fairly hilarious public spat with Ben Hayes over on CL merely confirmed the suspicions of many about the Trust (including me), namely that this is yet another example of certain Charlton supporters stroking their own egos and vying to be seen as the Most Important. You and Benny Hayes remind me of bald men fighting over a comb
I could probably have handled it better, I'm just an ordinary bloke not a politician, I say it as i see it, if people want to twist facts and try and put us in a bad light intentionally with no justification I will fight our corner
so anyway shall we move on? what do people think a supporters' trust stance should be in the event of a takeover, and one that might include a ground move being central to that?
Razil You could probably handle it better. One suggestion from me would be to stop trying to fight shadows. When we know what the proposals are you would then have a tangible windmill at which to tilt. If at that time you try to seek the opinion of the fan base to a formal proposal from the club/new owners you will not be seen (as now) as a politician trying to establish a power base to lead the troops of a nation that does not yet believe it has a problem.
I think the point about a trust vs a supporters club in this regard is an interesting one for the record i would be very careful to avoid being political, although I think people should read our aims and objectives, they are essentially giving fans a voice and preserving CAFC for the long term (nothing about owning the club) normally they want the fans view, and as a fan I want the best for CAFC without selling our soul - my view would be something on the lines of we are very interested in a takeover if it can move the club forward without losing its identity ideally, and any changes done with the right level of consultation with the fans. what would you say?
the only thing we are fighting at present is council bureaucracy, we are not fighting a takeover or move, as you rightly say because it hasn't happened (nor would we necessarily) / or been formally mooted. What you see in the SLP is simply their connection of our ACV campaign with talk on message boards, and a bit of supposition and speculation, but please do elaborate if I've missed the point
just to add little more on the self promotion front, we have made it our aim in the first year to promote for want of a better word the trust idea and appeal to fans to join, they don't have to its just reaching them with the message. We have appeared on radio several times, but this has largely and I'm racking my brains to think of an example when it was otherwise confined ourselves to a specific request for an interview or response to a press release from us on the Trust, we have tried to avoid speaking in some way as representing the average fan or ourselves - I'm not being defensive, I am just trying to be honest and answer fully. We have to be self promoting in some ways so that we can be open and people can speak to us. And like I said in the absence of main branch and formal CASC anymore as a single entity, and with the modern way being Supporters' Trusts a lot now, the media tend to ask us. We are still fans though, and I totally get the point being made here
