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O/T Privatisation of Criminal Justice

Discussion in 'Norwich City' started by Rubik's Tube, Nov 6, 2013.

  1. Home on the range canary

    Home on the range canary Well-Known Member

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    I'm a bit surprised that you said the group treatment programmes work I thought there was uk and international evidence that indicates the programmes are of limited efficacy
     
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  2. Bath-Canary

    Bath-Canary Well-Known Member

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    Really that is rather fanciful, take the recent royal mail privatisation where anybody who applies for more than £10,000, not actually the investment of the wealthy just of those looking to invest money, were denied shares. A large number of the privatisations in the 80s was the government offloading companies that should have never been nationalised by labour in the first place and the investment far from a generous offer was actually a very large risk. some of these have paid off, some really haven't.\

    Generally the government is to large and slow moving to run good businesses and service, putting these services out to tender gives a far greater level of autonomy to people actually involved with the day to day running, with the government overseeing the process instead of trying to run in and watch themselves simultaneously.

    I will admit I know very little detail about the privatisation of parts of the probation service but i don't immediately assume it will be worse because the government is no longer involved. i understand the fear that things will change but i find it had to fundamentally judge the new process when the company that is going to operate it hasn't even been chosen.

    I genuinely hope that the new system is a success and that you personal position isn't compromise RT but i don't see how we can currently pass judgement.
     
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  3. Dangerous Marsupial

    Dangerous Marsupial Well-Known Member

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    Jesus, is there anything this Government won't try to privatise?
     
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  4. Rubik's Tube

    Rubik's Tube Member

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    That's an insightful point. I joined the Probation service about 10 years ago, and literally every programme we ran at that time has been replaced by a new one, drawing on more up to date evidence. No doubt all the current programmes we run will become superseded by new evidence.

    There is mixed evidence about group work as an overall approach. For example, the Thinking Skills Programme was previously considered a General Offending Behaviour Programme- pretty much any offender could be suitable for it if they have a history of making bad decisions(!). The research now shows that it reduces the risk of violent offenders commiting violent offences, but has no positive impact on those that have committed mostly crimes like burglary or shoplifting. Therefore, only violent offenders now do the programme.

    Generally the two main conclusions from research are that programmes must be very specifically targeted and must be part of a multi-agency approach. E.g the Building Better Relationships programme I mentioned specially targets domestic abuse perpetrators and only works if it is run alongside regular meetings between Police and Probation to share intelligence and info from people working with the victim/ partner.

    For me the key thing is that under the current system, the programmes are only 'accredited' if they are based on a principle that has a sound evidence base. In response to current evidence from UK and Canada, this includes the multi-agency approach and specific targeting. Under the new system there will be no accreditation. I can see that this will be cheaper, but am not convinced that they will more effective.
     
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  5. Rubik's Tube

    Rubik's Tube Member

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    Bath Canary- I completely agree that it is impossible to pass judgement at the present time. For that reason you would think that some pilot projects would be a good idea... The Government set up three pilots about 18 months ago.
    1) private company delivering interventions while probation have overall management of the case. (Community orders)
    2) private company managing offenders instead of probation (community orders)
    3) private company supervising prisoners after release on a short custodial sentence (who would otherwise get nothing).

    The third pilot is halfway through, and the government proudly declare it's interim results suggest reoffending may be reduced by 12% (compared with having no support or monitoring). Police and Probation funded projects for the same offender groups have reduced reoffending by 20-30% (Google search Integrated Offender MAnagement).

    We will never know the results of the first two pilots because they were stopped by the Government before even any interim results were published.
     
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  6. Rubik's Tube

    Rubik's Tube Member

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    http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/44403
     
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  7. Cruyff's Turn

    Cruyff's Turn Well-Known Member

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  8. canary_max

    canary_max Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this view, the government being too large and inefficient in certain areas.

    also they have made some mistakes in privatising some things that have stayed in public hands - utilities and Train (network not operating companies) spring to mind
     
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  9. Rich44

    Rich44 Well-Known Member

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    British rail was one of the few state railways making a profit before it was sold, we'd have had a superfast train network but Thatcher killed it because she HATED trains. Where do u think the tech for the pendolino trains comes from? The APT that although over budget and late was almost ready that's why so many journeys are still pulled by mk3 diesels.

    BT were going to put fibre to every home in the 80s to run tv on demand but Thatcher blocked it.

    Look at the current east coast mainline "franchise" that's a government at arms length company and its doing a very good job

    Sent from my Sony Xperia Z1
     
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  10. Rubik's Tube

    Rubik's Tube Member

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    Just wanted to say thanks for reading my rants and debating this and relevant issues! I think this is really important and am fearful for the future which does make me biased...Victoria Derbyshire led a really interesting, balanced and informed debate on the subject on BBC 5 live. Would love it if you gave this a listen (twenty minute segment, starting at 06:40mins)...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03g907v
     
    #30

  11. canary-dave

    canary-dave Well-Known Member

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    You must be on phone, I've sorted link for you! <ok>
     
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