Frustrated, what next?

We were poor today but still deserved a point and that for me is the most frustrating thing. All we had to do to draw (or even win) that game was try. Run, chase, battle etc and we'd have taken the points.

As for Pardew, it wasn't his finest game in charge but he was far from the sole reason for our defeat and this isn't a "Pardew Out" thread but under Pardew we've stagnated, badly.

Very few (if any) of our players have progressed under him, in fact we have 3 or 4 that have badly regressed such as Sissoko, Cisse and dare I say Ben Arfa. Now I'm not saying those three are immune to criticism as they're three very lazy bastards when they want to be but where do we go from here???

We won't go down under Pardew but we'll also never have a clear long term plan under him either and that was highlighted after only 15 minutes of today's game. I can only assume we'd spent a good portion of the week working on setting up our game plan around Ben Arfa in this "false 9" position.

If that's the case why abandon it so early? You either believe in the system or you don't and 15 minutes simply wasn't long enough to see if it would work. All that happened was that Pardew panicked after going behind and we ended up with Sissoko (a central midfielder) at left wing and as a result we were unsurprisingly very infective down that flank. Some people will credit him for changing it early as we were losing the midfield battle, but after working on that system all week why not wait to see how the match would unfold?

My main point is what next for Pardew? I've seen many saying he should go whilst some say he should stay purely due to the fear that JFK could be the alternative (I'm convinced this wouldn't be the case).

Is there anyone better out there? Would they come? Are our inconsistencies down to Pardew, the players or a combination of both?

On a final note, I do think we simply have no shape and little identity. Anyone else think this could be due to Pardew nearly always picking our best players rather than our best team?

Anita is a big example here, he's steady and keeps us ticking over but as he's unlikely to single handedly win us a game on his own he's overlooked in favour of Sissoko, Cabaye, Ben Arfa and that supports the lack of game plan/identity theory. It almost looks as though the game plan is to rely on (hope for) a piece of individual magic which just isn't a long term plan or solution.

It's very disturbing that the players weren't motivated for today, especially after the 0-3 last year. Again there's no evidence to suggest this is down to Pardew or the players. Most likely a combination of both.

 

It is a team game and that's what we should be aiming for.

 

We plod on for the rest of the season I reckon.
gloomy times.

 

You know we can harp on about motivation and knowing what the derby means, but frankly this lot simply are not good enough.

They haven't been for well over a season now. These players can have all the determination you want but they completely lack ability, inventiveness and composure as a group.

Even in our 'better' moments, we rarely show a measured an clever build-up for a TEAM goal. It's either individual brilliance or a scrappy bit of fortune from an individual effort.

It's just kick it, anywhere will do.

Get the ball down and PLAY, move the thing and pass around teams with tempo and pace! These are supposed to be technical, talented players – together they show none of it.

And what the hell has happened to Sissoko by the way? It's like he read this forum after THAT Chelsea match and thought, oh I better nip that in the bud.
Clearly a fluke performance is the only way I can explain it... utter dross, offers nothing.

 

Whereas I think the criticism of Pards is often unwarranted and misplaced he does have some big calls which need making. The bottom line is Sissoko does not deserve to play. Anita does. We will certainly not lose anything by dropping Sissoko. We are seeing exactly why no other clubs were interested and he moved for 2m. Anita on the other hand never lets us down. To be honest if we cut our losses on Sissoko and Cisse I wouldn't care. At the very least though the former needs a massive kick up the arse.

A controversial one but I'm getting bored of Benni. He has talented but we see so little of it and his lack of defensive work means if you are going to carry him, then you need more than 1 game in 6 or 7. We look a better side without him most games. Soon he will score another wonder goal or 25 yd screamer and everyone will cream. I used to but have learnt its just another false dawn with him.

Santon is becoming a bit of a disgrace. Debuchy has impressed me with the way he has bounced back. He is giving it everything. Santon is a fairy. You can't have fairy's playing in your defence. Young Dummett needs slotted in there. Cisse just needs a spell in the reserves. He won't like it but he deserves no better. Shola is actually a better option and that is frightening. We have lost the likes of Ba, Best, Carroll, even Lover man. We are seriously short and this needs sorted in January without fail.

I accept we are not that good and he'll always be hamstrung by our lack of options. However the above are absolute necessities for me

 

what next? Things carry on as normal. I've been around since 1988 and this is the NUFC I've grown up with. Talented, inconsistent, complacent.

 

Nail on the head mate.

We didn't play Ki, Gardner, Roberge, Celustka or star player Giaccherini. We gave a left back his debut and first game of the season and put Colback in midfield after playing at left back for 18 months. It concerned the majority of our supporters but it shows he has the balls to do it, and thankfully he did.

 

If Ashley is thinking the same then he'll probably be content with that.

 

It's a question I'm struggling to answer to be honest.
Who would work under the current regime, fit Ashley's tight budget and be an improvement on the silver fox?

 

Completely agree with you regarding Ben Arfa. Yes at times he can look like the best player in the league but as you've said that's maybe once every five games if we're lucky. For the other games he is the WORST player on the pitch, a passenger who lacks team ethic and individual pride. We're not good enough to carry him and nor should we have to. Messi, Ronaldo, Ozil etc are all twice the player he is and yet they all still work their nuts of for the cause.

Also agree that Cisse and Sissoko must be dropped. Pardew has tried playing Cisse through this barren spell (which made sense) but it hasn't worked, he doesn't even look like a footballer. You then have to add Sissoko in to the mix who is the single most lazy player to wear the shirt and we're then carrying not one, not two, but three players.

It's worrying that Pardew doesn't know his best formation let alone his best team. We frequently change systems three or four times a game and it prevents us from establishing any kind of rythm or patern. He needs to pick a favoured system and pick the players that suit said system rather than picking our supposed best players and trying to cram them in to eleven positions.

I ultimitely do think Pardew should go but not because of yesterday. If he loses the next derby he's gone no matter what and having a manager that is essentially one game away from the boot is not the way forward, We need some sort of longevity and whilst it could be argued that's why we should keep him I couldn't disagree more. At the moment we complete change our system/style of play based on who we're facing. It shouldn't be like that. We should have our own game plan and TWEAK it based on who we're facing. We don't do that though, we work on a game to game basis hence we have very little cohesion in our play and quite often some of our players don't seem to know their jobs on the pitch (not that some of them are remotely capable of carrying out their jobs).

I'm not worried because as I've said I don't think we'll go down, I'm just frustrated because the best it will possibly get is 10th/11th with no cup success.

 

Poyet would have been my first choice, reckon he'll still come???

 

I really can't see any viable options right now.
Clarke in a few years maybe but not right now.

 

Sean Dyche appears to be doing a good job.
Zola looks to be doing a good job
Darren Ferguson is being to re-establish Peterboro

We have missed out on up and coming managers in the past with our attitude that we are too big a club to be not looking at quality established managers - which there are none now. We need a young manager with the right philosophies and someone who can bring in decent coaches

 

As the OP said, this is not a Pardew Out thread. There is zero point even speculating. If the guy doesn't get sacked losing 0-3 and 0-6 in successive home games, he's un-sackable. So get it into your head that he's not going anywhere unless we resemble Palace.

Now, Hacky's spot on. Pardew needs to manage this club now with some urgency. TO BE FAIR the side that drew a draw out of a strong Liverpool side with just 10 men did enough to deserve this game, you can't change that. But our issue is we have players who - in my opinion - want to be in (and would look good in) bigger sides. Santon would be a fine player in Man City's first XI, but he can't cut it at the mid-table level, he's not bullish enough. Sissoko's a bit too much of a fanny as well, he just wants that easy lay-off, he doesn't really want to battle for it. I think the formation Pardew used vs Liverpool is exactly right and we've almost got the personnel. Dummett MUST start at left back, it's becoming embarrassing that Pardew won't do it. Debuchy's been extremely good at right back and is first choice, but there's nothing wrong with having Santon as your sub full-back - he can do both roles and will get another chance. At centre back we're in real fcking trouble. As I've said before, I could never understand why Pardew and the club felt we were alright at CB when we had such volatility there. Colo's vital and we need to hope that Steven Taylor somehow comes back stronger. MYM is a decent sub there and could be good long term and at least Willo's committed, not done too much wrong these past couple of games. But it's mid-table strength, really.

Moving forward, Sissoko needs dropping, Cisse needs to be sold on. Anita MUST start. He never deserved dropping. He can play CM, wide right, RB and Pardew's treating him badly right now. Cabaye and Tiote are almost there again, but were let down having to carry 2 or 3 players yesterday. Gouffran again showed he's a bit lightweight and Remy highlighted the very French trait of both being fair-weather and believing his own hype. Since everyone started clamouring him to sign, the foot's off the pedal and he's been very pedestrian.

HBA deserves his own sentence because he's frankly unbearable at the moment. Such talent, so inconsistent.

We then loop all the way around to knowing that our best eleven is;

Krul

Debuchy, Colo, Saylor, Dummett

Anita, Tiote, Cabaye

HBA Remy

Yup, that's 10 players. Why? BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT PLAYER UP FRONT BECAUSE THE DOZY FCKERS AT NUFC DECIDED NOT TO BUY ANYONE AND IN THE MEANTIME LUKAKU'S SCORED AGAIN, GOMIS IS SULKING, ARNAUTOVIC SCORED AGAINST MAN UTD AND SO ON AND SO FCKING FORTH.

 

Our best option there is probably Santon!! I'd also give Haidara a go at LB

 

Problem we have is that Premier League teams - and bear with me, even though this sounds ridiculous - aren't sophisticated enough to succumb to our superior tactic! I realise this sounds like the sort of comment Jim or Hacky would make, but I think that when our cultured lot are experimenting in training, playing their Franco-Italian games, having this "false number 9", and so on, works really well. Then you rock up at Roker Park to take on the talentless lump-kickers of Bardsley, Colback and Cattermole and all they do is sprint after the ball hoping to take the player with them - scares us witless.

I think the formation I put is absolutely right. We also then have a sub for every position who can offer something else. Again avoiding the issue of CF, here's our second XI:

Elliott

Santon MYM Willo Haidara

Sissoko Bigi Marv

Gouff Sameobi

Still leaves Jonas, Vuckic and Obertan for not that bad backup.

Of course, all of this adds the disclaimer "Apart from up front." The perfect players are at Swansea and Chelsea; Michu, Bony, Ba and Lukaku would all make us devastating. We need to cash in on Cisse before he's worthless and ship Ameobi out. There's nothing we have in this department. Problem for us is we have neither the cash nor the ambition to fill in what is a very tricky position to fill. That said, if Pards is willing to put HBA up there, I'd rather just give Adam Campbell a shot.