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Why are we not seeing any other teams trying to play like us?

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by Downthe36, Oct 26, 2013.

  1. fran-MLs little camera

    fran-MLs little camera Well-Known Member

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    What if Cortese leaves....that wiped the smile of all your faces :)
     
    #21
  2. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    Just read that MP is 8-1 to be the LMA Manager of the Year. Got to be worth a punt at the current rate of progress?
     
    #22
  3. I Sorry I Ruined The Party

    I Sorry I Ruined The Party Well-Known Member

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    Other teams do play like Saints. Just not so much in Premier League. It's been pointed out by just about everyone that England is falling behind because they don't play the modern game.

    You have to have the players to do it and there is a trade-off to be made. It's hard for me to imagine some of the big name Premier League stars chasing all over the pitch like Lallana, Rodriguez, and Lambert do. OTOH, those big name stars might only need a few touches to produce a goal or two and we don't really have that kind of scoring power.

    I think the Academy is vitally important for Saints not just because we don't have the same type of money as some other clubs, but also because it can churn out players who are used to all the running and training and have a feel for the somewhat complicated tactics. If you're just buying a mish-mash of star players from all over the world and from different systems, then you tend to keep your tactics basic and let your superior talent win out.

    I don't see Pochettino leaving. He is already managing the best team in the world at playing his style and we're on the right track. We might not make Champion's League this year or the next but he's young and the way things are going within four or five years there's no reason we can't be up there with the best clubs in the world.
     
    #23
  4. TheSecondStain

    TheSecondStain Needs an early night

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    He won't.

    Did that swiftly bring it back..? :)

    Never took you for being negative, Fran..?
     
    #24
  5. fran-MLs little camera

    fran-MLs little camera Well-Known Member

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    Just being mischievous.
     
    #25
  6. Downthe36

    Downthe36 Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to let Borussia Dortmund hold that title at the moment! When I watched the Arsenal v Bor. Dortmund game the other night it did make me realise how far we can go playing this style of football. Dortmund are good but they are not on a whole different level of talent to us, they are just phenomenally well coached........like us.
     
    #26
  7. Kaiser

    Kaiser Member

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    We have a very disciplined approach now with a very good manager, we just play it simple?
     
    #27
  8. TheSecondStain

    TheSecondStain Needs an early night

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    That sort of mischief doesn't become you. :)
     
    #28
  9. I Sorry I Ruined The Party

    I Sorry I Ruined The Party Well-Known Member

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    As a sidenote, when Borrusia Dortmund had Kagawa, he was awesome for them with his speed and high workrate-- like a better Jay Rodriguez. Then he moved to Man U, and they really don't know quite what to do with him. If Kagawa were to move to Saints, I think he would be amazing.

    Sort of another example I guess of how you need the right players for the system, and also perhaps how many players/teams in England are falling behind the times compared to other countries.
     
    #29
  10. Downthe36

    Downthe36 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, I already like the picture that has come together from this jigsaw, but if there is to be a missing piece it's someone like Kagawa or Banega that win the ball back then create magic with it.

    Having said that, I think Lallana can be that man, but in that case we need another wider player.
     
    #30

  11. SaintFletch

    SaintFletch Member

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    The thing I noticed today was the positions other players take up whilst 3 or 4 press the ball. A lot of punditry talks about all the squad being incredibly fit to cope with the demanding pressing game. It is becoming clearer to me that under this system it is also critically important that the players behind the pressing players are positioned correctly. This is where I think MP has mastered the system and has us incredibly well organised.

    So what I noticed today was that actually a lot of players who are away from the action are holding certain positions, not running around like blue arsed flies, and conserving energy. Fonte gave a hint of this earlier this week in a piece on Skysports I think. He mentioned about the defenders jobs being easier due to the set-up.

    I completely agree with others on here that unless you're a manager who understands how the entire system works it could go dramatically wrong. I think the players need to be extremely fit yes, but I think it's a different fitness of timed bursts of effort. When you have the entire team drilled to work in this way it appears that there is a phenomenal level of intensity and everyone is working their socks off all the time. What I thought today was that you saw certain players drift in and out of the game as needed and when they were in the action the opposition couldn't live with them. Take Wanyama for example. An excellent game, but it wasn't like he was doing everthing everywhere all the time..... The same goes for Lallana, JRod, Spiderman, SRL etc.

    Just some thoughts. Interested if anyone else has noticed this.
     
    #31
  12. I Sorry I Ruined The Party

    I Sorry I Ruined The Party Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking it might be JWP.
     
    #32
  13. TheSecondStain

    TheSecondStain Needs an early night

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    I think Adam is becoming the player he has always promised to be. We've long known that technically he has astounding feet, but it's his fitness and quickness of mind and body that is so much sharper than it was only a season ago, that has made the biggest difference. Now, all those little things he could effortlessly do as a teenager, he is beginning to be able to do at the higher level because he is so much faster than he was just a little while ago. I hope he doesn't end up like a maverick like Le Tiss, because he works so hard, and he's got the most talented feet I've seen in a Saints shirt since the great man himself.
     
    #33
  14. Downthe36

    Downthe36 Well-Known Member

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    He has a hole in his game for that role, he can't run with the ball.
     
    #34
  15. MorgansBitOnTheSchneid

    MorgansBitOnTheSchneid Well-Known Member

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    If everyone played the same football would be a boring game!!
     
    #35
  16. I Sorry I Ruined The Party

    I Sorry I Ruined The Party Well-Known Member

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    True. He's not ready for it yet.

    I don't think he'll ever be a world-class dribbler or make people look foolish like Lallana. But he can still be effective because of his great vision and passing skills. He doesn't need to create space like other players because he's extremely efficient at using whatever bit of space is given him.

    I think that's actually what happened to Kagawa. When he got to Man U, it seemed like they expect their attacking midfielder to dribble around and do these maze-y Messiesque runs and he wasn't comfortable with it. I think he preferred a quick attack/quick pass type of system.

    But yeah, he's a little too easily dispossessed right now. He looked really good against Fulham, but Fulham for whatever reason seemed pretty content to let midfielders dribble around wherever they wanted. I think against tougher defenses, he needs to dribble a bit better and/or get stronger. But I think he is capable of it.

    One nice thing about Lallana is how often you see him do all the twists and turns in the box searching for space but in the end he has to bring it back out. Which seems like kind of a meaningless action and rather a back-handed compliment. Except when you think about how often Ramirez runs into the box and just gives the ball away in the same situation.
     
    #36
  17. Saints by name, Saints by nature

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    I would say one reason is due to the fitness of the team, we seem to be able to keep running right up until the final whistle. As a part of this, you have to have players with the right attitude to get to that level of fitness and to play the system correctly. I believe Di Canio at Sunderland tried to get the players as fit, if not fitter, than we are now, but the players weren't interested. Unfortunately for him, the chairman backed the players over him. Here though, the chairman and manager are on the same wave-length, as are the players, and we now seem to have introduced the 'Southampton Way' as Cortese wanted.
     
    #37
  18. KillerCephalopod

    KillerCephalopod Active Member

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    Didn't Morgan say something like "it may look like we are running more, but actually we are just running in a more organized way" last season? Also totally agree about the cover - every tackle in every press needs someone there to pick up the loose ball - in effect you need at least two two people on every opposition player. Players with positional sense are more important than those who can just run a lot; that's why Rickie can fit still in whilst not being the fastest any more, but someone like Gaston who can run but always seems to play the wrong ball is left on the bench.


    He's only 18, he'll bulk out a bit more too, specially with Poch's double training sessions. Look at Luke compared with last season, or if anyone saw Lee he also seemed to have put on more muscle
    Kagawa is a player I'd love to see down here (Dreaming, I know) - Moyes only started him for the 1st time yesterday and United actually scored a few; I doubt they'll ever play to his strengths though, relying on Rooney as the old fashioned Forward, and a unique talent in RvP. However, if they carry on leaking goals like yesterday, I can see them finishing as low as 5th or 6th. Most teams have a better attack than Stoke or us.
     
    #38
  19. Dark Lord SFC

    Dark Lord SFC Well-Known Member

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    As hinted by Jamie Rednapp last night, if Saints want to be a top team they will have to pay top wages and at the moment none of our squad are paid anything like top pay.
    Just look at Luke, he signed a long contract for £25k a week, the new Manure super kid has just signed a long term contract with a £5m signing on fee plus £60k a week. Can anyone say that if a club like Manure came knocking at his door he wouldn't have his head turned by such an incredible amount of money?
     
    #39
  20. KillerCephalopod

    KillerCephalopod Active Member

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    Hopefully he'll see AoC sitting on the bench at a 'big team' and his desire to play will overcome his desire to move. That and the Cortese vision for Southampton - in a few short years he's seen us move from bottom of L1 to 3rd in the Prem. A few more years and he either warm the bench at ManU or play Europian football, maybe even CL for us. If he does move, it'll be gazillions due to his long contract and brilliant talent. Though Luke's a Chelsea fan, he'll go there if he leaves and Abramovic can afford gazilllions if he wants.
     
    #40

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