Haters gonna hate - Mike Williamson

All credit to the bloke. They guy has bulked up and he wins everything in the air now. If we ever wanted someone that could challenge aerial threats then Williamson is the man for me. Not brilliant in terms of ball playing ability but good at defending.

He looks like the first truly dominant aerial presence at the back we've had in a while. Colo isn't an aerial presence really. Saylor is good but I wouldn't call him dominant. He can put off aerial threat but not beat them.

Willo was actually beating Lukaku in most situations v Everton. Last season he was about 50/50 against Fellaini.

Willo also seems to be very vocal at the back and tries to marshal the players. He's smarter and more mature than Saylor and keeps his head.

Whatever you have to say about the man - Every time any of our other defenders has an injury or a nightmare stage, he steps in and does a job. Simple as. He deserve credit.

please log in to view this image

 

Not a favourite of mine but he did well yesterday.
I noticed that he kept talking to Dummett to settle the lad, which shows he's a good pro.

 

Agree. One thing Willo always gave was and is 100% effort. Would never criticise him for not trying as always tries his best.

Does on the brief glimpses this season seem to be more effective than before. Still has distribution issues ( "the hoof" ) and ultimately is a very good Championship level player. Not said as a criticism just an observation. As 4th choice back up I have no problems with him.

 

Tash, I don't think people HATE him tbh, it's just they believe he is not a first team standard player.
He clearly isn't but if he continues to fill gaps like yesterday and perform very well then I'd be happy.
Long term though our squad needs to be improved and I can see him moving on in the near future.
For now though, I'm not as nervous when I see his name on the team.

 

Thought he had a good all round game and showed a lot of confidence considering the time he's been out of the team.

 

Good bloke as I've always said. We can do better as I've always said. Easily in our best two available centre backs at present.

 

He's a player in the same group as Simpson, Perch were and Gosling probably is now - not good enough to bother signing them, but you keep hold of them when you've got them and they are vital members of the squad

 

Always a good squad player, thought he was brilliant yesterday and IMO was man of the match.

 

Just not good enough, okay squad player but no more.

He was at fault for the Cardiff goal which could have cost us.

He is a Liability who has a mistake waiting to happen.

I would never take away the fact
His work ethics and desire.

 

I think willo should stay after training and take tiote through some hoofit lessons so he knows what to do instead of fannying about in daft places which he's prone to do

 

Agree with most. I believe most of us here admire him for being the team player and his ethics and respect him. However, at the end of the day he is still a championship player at best. Yes he has amazingly managed to improve a little bit, and he does not inspire so much facepalmness in us anymore (less hoofball from what I've seen), and hes' been playing well for the past few games.

However, I don't agree with you declaring him as an aerial threat. The same weaknesses in his heading game are still there. Yes, he is big and tall enough to get his head to the ball, but he can't direct his header to save his life. The only finesse players whom we can deem great headers of the ball are probably Saylor, Colo, Debuchy, even Shola and to some extent Cisse as well. I would definitely not put Willo anywhere near that group. Willo is just a tall bloke who is able to get his head adequately to clear the ball, but he does not have the heading technique to pose a threat on attacking setpieces. That said, he does that exact job well(defending wise) and is an asset to have, as I would say again, a 4th-choice centre back.

 

Williamson makes errors, but I don't see how he isn't a first team standard player. I think whenever one of our fans states something like this, it's because of their level of expectation, rather than looking at the options other teams around us have and comparing our players to them.

I personally don't see much better than Williamson outside the top bracket of teams. There's plenty who have one first choice that's better than him, but that's it really.

1 Arsenal 8 9 19
2 Chelsea 8 9 17
3 Liverpool 8 6 17
4 Man City 8 11 16
5 Southampton 8 5 15
6 Everton 8 2 15
7 Tottenham 7 1 13
8 Man Utd 8 1 11
-------------------------------------------------------------
9 Hull 8 -2 11
10 Newcastle 8 -3 11
11 Swansea 8 1 10
12 Aston Villa 7 1 10
13 West Brom 8 1 10
14 West Ham 8 0 8
15 Stoke 8 -3 8
16 Cardiff 8 -5 8
17 Fulham 7 -4 7
18 Norwich 8 -7 7
19 Crystal Palace 7 -8 3
20 Sunderland 8 -15 1

Look at the teams below the line. I could name Stoke who have Shawcross and Huth, so you could argue they have 2 first choice CB's that are better than Willo.

What other team below that line has two CB's that are significantly better than Williamson? I just don't see it.

Williamson isn't top class, but he can play at premier league level and is good enough for a mid table team, which we are. If we want to push up into the top 8, then I agree with you, but if we're able to admit top 10 is our target and that we're a mid table team, then Williamson, in my opinion, is good enough to be labeled a first team player for us. If he isn't, then it would be like saying any side below the top 8 hasn't got a CB duo that is of premier league standard.

If he plays a long stretch of games, he usually has 4/5 dreadful games, but these usually come at a time where the back line is **** as a whole. There are times which you could say he's at fault for some goals, but the likes of Debuchy and Santon have and will make mistakes which lead to goals also.

If Williamson isn't good enough to be a first team player, than neither is Santon, and neither is Debuchy. If quality isn't the main thing, and consistency and mistakes is what we really take into account, then Tiote, Debuchy, Cabaye, Santon, Saylor, Mbiwa and Ben Arfa aren't good enough either. They're only useful as squad players.

Williamson simply just gets judged mainly on his mistakes.

 

I'd say Villa have 3 better in Okore, Vlaar and Clarke. West Brom have at least 4 in McCauley, Lugano, Olsen, Dawson. Swansea at least 3 in Amat, Chico, Williams. West Ham at least 3 in Collins, Reid, Tomkins. Stoke as well as the ones you name have Muniesa, Pieters who can play centre half. Fulham have Hangeland, Amorebieta, Senderos. That is the ones off the top of my head Tash, I'm sure I'll have missed a few. Not having a go at Willo but you have to consider the level of the PL.

 

Willo in, Pards out!

 

I wouldn't disagree with some of the people you have there. Remember, I said most teams below the line only really have one first choice better than Willo, not that all the teams only have CB's at Willo's level.

With Villa, I'll admit I forgot about Okore.

With the ones you mentioned.

Better than Willo -

Okore, Vlaar, McCauley, Olsen, Chico, Hangeland, Senderos.

All the others are about Willo's level or not that much better that they can be considered a standard above Willo.

But I suppose it comes down to opinion. I don't understand how people, removing their high expectations, can say Willo is out of place in a team that's not even confirmed mid table, just mid table/lower mid table contenders.

If we were a good team in the top 8 then yeah, but at the moment I really don't see us being near strong favourites for a top 10 finish.

 

That's though, the fans are looking at ways to make us top 10.

I think all mentioned are better than Willo but there you go, that's just opinions. Certainly James Collins is a lot better (very underrated for me), Williams is a lot better. on a side note, thinking about it, Wales could have a very decent defence if they played Gunter, Dummett, Williams, Collins. For a team at our level then Willo is not horrendous but as a fan you are always going to look at the weakest elements of each area of the pitch. Defensively Willo, no back up right back, GK Eliott, MF Obertan etc. Just normal thought process really.

Willo deserves credit for actually improving his game at his age. Less lumping it this season, and not looking so robotic. The problem with getting rid is getting someone who will show the same effort, leadership etc. I had hoped Saylor/Mbiwa would step and thought we could maybe let Willo go, bringing in a youngster. That was wrong admittedly as the other two have disappointed. If he goes it'll have to be an experienced upgrade.

 

Agree with everything you say, except for the Wales defence - Gunter is no way near the standard of Matthews, Eardley, Ricketts, Neil Taylor or Ben Davies at full-back. The normal is Taylor-Williams-Collins-Matthews I believe

 

Willo has many excellent qualities - defensive headers, holding the line (very well!), and positioning. Obviously his distribution is poor, and he can sometimes look very unnatural with the ball at his feet - but you know what, these aren't the most vital attributes for what he's paid to do - i.e. defend!

As far as the defenders we have at the minute, Steven Taylor is by far the worst (very poor positionally, hates players running at him, never holds the line, does stupid things/handballs etc), MYM is ok and has had some great games but is still getting used to the premiership and struggles against powerful forwards. So at the moment Willo and Colo are our two best centre backs, which I'm fine with - we've kept many clean sheets with those two over the last 3 years.

Credit to Willo, he deserves a run in the team for his excellent form and settling the defence since that awful first half at Everton.

 

Collins only just back in the fold. Dummett is good enough to start. I've always liked Gunter (haven't seen him for a while though). Has a bit brutality about him. Collins/Williams should be a good basis for any defence.

 

Still, remember, form is temporary , class is permanent. Think of it as Willo having great form now. But we've seen enough of his game over the past few years to know what kind of class he is at, and let's just say it isn't a very good one.

He has helped to shore up our defence the past few games and I'm obviously as pleased about it as anyone else of us here, but let's not overpraise him too much, knowing full well that he really isn't that good.