Fantastic going forward but somebody needs to tell him his job is first to defend! the amount of times he had chico and ash pulled out of position to cover him returning from a spell up front could have cost us a big time today. Its getting a bit lax from him imo, I know he offers so much and his ball control is fantastic but it put chico in all sorts of trouble today against the likes of sturridge,who exploited the open space behind superbly,we are going to get caught out big time if this continues . Other than leaving us exposed at the back Rangel had a great game along with everyone else.Liverpool look the real deal to me but we had 60% possession and totally out played them second half,the boys showed superb guts and I loved the way Michu did shelveys celebration when he scored,that was a touch of class from our heroic Michu man !! We cant keep giving away soft goals. 2 against Man utd 1 against Spurs and 2 again tonight the flip side of this is when we cut out the errors we are a right handful when on our game, a special mention for Bony, I thought he had a great game tonight and is starting to get to grips with the premier league, he was desperately unlucky not to score that goal but for a world class tackle by skertal. Im really thrilled by the class showed by the swans tonight,all talk of them losing their football was total and utter bullshit, they gave Liverpool a roasting 2nd half and but for us gifting them a lead things would have been different. We wont keep making these mistakes so hopefully doing it agains the teams we are not expected to win against will mean we cut them out against the teams around us Well done Swans,fooking awesome tonight ! but rangel, for fook sake your killing our centre halfs ! Thoughts ?
I kinda think that Rangel isn't exactly the problem, but the winger with him, when Davies runs ahead, Routledge kind of is there to cover, which could be seen in the second half when Ben was well out of position, Gerrerd hit a long pass, and there was Routs covering, where Rangel didn't have that luxury as Dyer was nowhere to be found first half. I mean the cross for their header which Vorm saved, just look how helpful Dyer was, i mean he basically stood there and watched as Rangel got done by Moses, and Dyer who was like 2 yards away did absolutely feck all. Knowing you have a Winger and Fullback working as a unit, is a great thing, and its what worked with Dyer and Rangel in the past, but Dyer has become a lazy little sod, and now we are seeing the problems. Yes he has Hernandez when he plays, and Pablo is better defensively than Dyer, but they haven't quite got their partnership firing on all cylinders just yet, but once they do, can't see Dyer getting many games.
All above I agree with, except Rangel is great. He can't shoot on target for ****e, but his work rate up and down for his age is phenomenal. It's the full backs staying forward which helps us to keep up the possession high up the field. We were pressurising so well in the last half hour. If any manager should have an idea how to counteract us, it's Rodgers. He didn't, we totally outclassed the Premier League leaders in the second half. Superb performance. I watched with 2 Liverpool fans, who were BEGGING for a point from 70 minutes.
Rangel was poor first half, exposing himself and us too far forward, and he then doesn't have the pace to keep up with an opposition winger, so puts Chico under pressure, but I agree with swanselona, Dyer didn't help, and stood around doing nothing, and was quite frankly unbelievable, why he wouldn't run I can only conclude was down to some fitness issue or some lingering injury, glad he was subbed half time!........................
I understand the points on Dyer but as we all know its the defenders job to defend not the midfielders job, of course somebody like Dyer should fill the space when rangel pushed on but if he isn't doing that its down to rangel to cut his cloth accordingly, his game management has become a little bit poorer of late IMO. Many times rangel was on the edge of their box when they were on the break,this was at a crucial part of the game too, funny how its been mentioned about routs covering his full back because he has always been criticised for not doing that. I belevie Rangel must first to his job,and that is to defend , if his player in front is not compensating him then he needs to bollock him or curb his forward running , we were lucky chico finaly found his form last night or it could have got ugly on the break, interesting thoughts none the less
Sentimentality aside he's an obvious weak spot in the team now. If he's not replaced in January then we need to be looking at it for next summer.
"its the defenders job to defend not the midfielders job" Far too simplistic, NJ. The way we play involves both left and right backs bombing forward so something has to give and you can't have it both ways because we don't have Ashley Cole. When Pozuelo was on he made a conscious effort to drop back to cover Rangel, but as others have pointed out Dyer doesn't seem to want to do this any more. However I do agree that Rangel's big problem is a lack of pace. When he runs back he looks like he's got lead in his boots. As much as I love him I do think that maybe it's time to give Tiendalli a run. He offers better quality crosses and can actually cover the ground.
Don't talk soft, go into any dressing room in the world and a coach will always tell you to do your own job first,,it's your job to defend,you go forward when it's on and get your ass back ASAP ! His job is to also manage his winger team mate defensively, maybe nathen is getting fed up of covering the holes for Rangel nowadays because he spends more time forward than at the back does our angel. The simplistic thing is to think because he has licence to get forward that means he can forget about defending,which is what he seems to be doing less of lately .
Because I happen to disagree with one of your many points doesn't necessarily mean I'm "talking soft". Or do you only put up threads to spout off and not welcome any comments that differ from yours? That's what it looks like. Please let us know by including "Only posters who agree are welcome" or something like that. Rangel's 'job' is as a defender first. Yes, that's right. But we have always encouraged our defenders to get forward and that's been a huge part of our success. If you stop that you fundamentally change the way the Swans play. When Rangel doesn't play, his replacement plays the same way. If you take the time to read my comment I actually agreed with you in that Rangel has a woeful lack of pace and this does cause us problems at times. I'll say it again if it's not clear. You are correct on that. However, Rangel has always relied on Dyer to help with defensive duties and I agree with others that Dyer seems reluctant to do that these days. Pozuelo did cover. It was noticeable if you were at the game, but in fairness you may not have seen this on your T.V. Now that is my view and I don't give a fish's tit if you agree with that or not.
I love Rangel and his efforts, and yes sometimes he is found wanting, but you can't say its him, as you often find Davies doing the exact same thing. Difference is Davies has a much better end product on him, so doesn't get so badly caught out all the time, plus he has a worker in Routs pulling the defence all over the place opening up so much space its unbelievable. Maybe its time when he gets back from injury, to give Taylor a run at RB, he was fantastic there for team GB, so we know he can play that role, plus him and Davies are both good going forward, and out of the 2 I think Taylor is the better at getting back. So to have them both on the pitch would for me, be a great thing to have. As for a defenders role is to defend, well that depends on what they are being asked to do. Our tactics as has been mentioned is reliant on our full backs getting forward, look how they affected the game last night, its in those situation either your wingers or DM's fill in for them. I suppose it is more apparent when we are on the offensive, as we had 2 centre backs and 1 DM in Leon, who was even getting forward last night, so it will leave gaps at the back. But your right, Rangel has lost that pace which does help when they do break on us.
"As for a defenders role is to defend, well that depends on what they are being asked to do. Our tactics as has been mentioned is reliant on our full backs getting forward, look how they affected the game last night, its in those situation either your wingers or DM's fill in for them. I suppose it is more apparent when we are on the offensive, as we had 2 centre backs and 1 DM in Leon, who was even getting forward last night, so it will leave gaps at the back. But your right, Rangel has lost that pace which does help when they do break on us. " Exactly what I said, swans.
KJ , it's only you that has a problem with me ,I argue with loads and agree and disagree in equal measure as swanselona can testify,we debate at length but maintain a healthy respect towards each other,stop acting like a victim all the time,it sounds very needy if truth be told What they are being asked to do is to first defend then attack ,they wouldn't be playing full back otherwise All the goals in the world mean nothing if you neglect your defensive duties
Don't you think It would help if you didn't use phrases like "talking soft" just because someone puts up something you don't agree with? Nothing "needy" about it. Just asking for some common courtesy. Ask Rangel to prioritise his defensive duties and not get forward and you are making a fundamental change to the way we play. Again, for the umpteenth time, I agree he's far too slow in getting back. Just my opinion.
Really like I'm taking a "simplistic " view on how we play ? Nothing simplistic about an opinion on how I felt we defended, and again it's not about asking him to do something different it's about him doing what he is supposed to do, that's where we seem to disagree, he is an attacking full back ,not once have I mentioned him NOT getting forward, so please don't try and paint it that way, ben manages to do both roles and so does Taylor, IMO Rangel is slacking off a little bit in certain aspects.
This is getting daft, but at least I can see where you're "talking soft" comment came from. Umbrage. We actually agree - at least in part. "Simplistic" doesn't mean I was calling you simple does it? Your view was simplistic because you were saying a defender's job is to defend, and that's an over-simplification. It's not an insult. However, telling people they are "talking soft" just because their opinions differ (slightly) from yours is not right imo. Rangel isn't "slacking off". He works very very hard but just doesn't have the pace. There's a difference.
No such thing as just defending our just attacking in 2013. A modern footballer<s role is far more complex today.
Laudrup likes his full backs to attack and has said a number of times that it is part of his strategy as the wingers often move infield leaving space on the flanks for them to exploit. Rangel is a very good attacking full back but he does lack pace when the ball is lost and he has to get back. This is nothing new. I commented on it when we were in the Championship and feared that Premiership wingers might feast on him when we went up. It is to his credit that it doesn't happen that often. Laudrup is nobody's fool and if we are aware of it, so is he. Yet he still wants his full backs to bomb forward because that is his usual game plan. With that in mind, other players have to cover when Davies and Rangel launch their raids. That job often, but not always, falls to the wingers and, last night, Dyer was lacking in his duty to Rangel. It might have been that Dyer was still feeling his way back after being out because, in previous seasons, Dyer was often complimented on this board for his defensive work. His memorable hustling of the Arsenal full back directly led to Michu's second goal in our memorable win at the Emirates last season for instance. All that said, Rangel, a great servant, probably has only one, possibly two seasons, left as a regular starter. Our present options would appear to be Taylor switching to RB or maybe Tiendalli getting more games. But Rangel might yet confound us. Last night I posted that Laudrup might sub him for Tiendalli because he was struggling in the first half. What happened? Rangel had a very good second period with more support from Poz and I was delighted to be proven wrong.
