Eh? Frank's point was primarily about how consumer demand fuels the supply chain & that eating healthily & actually cooking food (as opposed to re-heating processed junk) isn't difficult & the excuse that it's "too expensive" lacks any real credibility when those saying it are making other lifestyle choices a priority over eating well. The whole intensive farming issue is another debate entirely tbh.
No I can't stand the tosser, but I can't argue with a lot of what he says in regards to the nations diet choices. The rot set in, in the 70's & slowly but surely people have lost the basic cooking skills that were taken for granted by previous generations. I work (I use that word loosely, lol) long hours & so does my wife, but we always cook a fresh meal every evening prepared from scratch, it's not difficult nor overly time consuming, there's no excuse for eating processed ****. People are just ****ing lazy these days & I find it galling that they use the price of produce as the excuse for it.
Lol Dave I'll work backwards. There's a set in a copse near fields where I walk the dog. See them roaming around occasionally around dusk if I'm late walking the mutt.but yes plenty on the roads. I live in n Ireland our roads are basically all country roads. As I stated: I'm not bashing all farmers far from it but the problem of BTB is far more complex than killing off badgers. Let's take the Govs own figures, say its a roaring success rather than the very possible opposite, if a dozen variables do or don't happen. 16% reduction in overall incident rate, so 84% of cases will still occur? Add perturbation and you've moved the problem to another farmers doorstep not cured it and within 6 years its back in its original areas as well as the surrounding areas as well. The badger vaccination is licensed (cattle vac is not) just awkward to administer but at the very worst Defra's own figures clearly show that if they added ring vaccination to the cull they'd have much more success and longer post cull decrease in TB in badger pop. So why cull only? It's cheaper in the short term that's why, and a token gesture to the loudest farmers...I sympathize but a drowning man screams loudest not most logically. And while individual farmers continue to attempt to bypass the bio security measures to struggle to make a profit cattle to cattle transmission will always be more devastating to the industry. As I suggested inherent short-termism in the farming industry will kill the farmers eventually, all you're doing is a stay of execution with this cull. Again I point to pesticides and a narrowing of growing species (which also happened within stock farming as well). The real issue for farmers is the disappearing profits and engineered shopping habits of yes, largely the poorest sections of our society. While on our trip back in time Dave do you remember what you use to be able to do, especially if you had little money? go to local shop and buy, a small loaf, individual produce, even your aforementioned treats like cigs & sweets individually. Strange that culturally that type of shopping has now become shameful. Why? Everything the supermarkets do now is encouraging over buying of products, which harms the consumer (diet: processed food, financially: buying produce that's not used) and harms the farmer, (flooded markets of non seasonal produce, grown in vast swathes of Africa reduces cost price). Harms the environment: packaging of processed food, forest clearance of African mega farms, south American rape seed oil farms etc etc. And as for the "Poor", it is as its always been: a matter of education. Spend the money on compulsory classes teaching long term unemployed how and what and when to buy and how to cook it, you remove them from the clutches of the supermarket as well as producing a healthier population that you aspire to have which reduces pressure on the NHS, You also bring back a balance to those who grow our food. no more having to magically produce food that isn't suppose to grow at that time of year or swim our way that time of year or worse Sale or return contracts. e.g. Cheap milk because gallons are poured down the drain every day to the point that dairy farmer produce milk at a loss? thats what kills them, not TB and not badgers. No excuse with computerized stock control and those roads you mentioned. Workhouse? No: arming our poor with information & skills so they aren't conned by government or corporation into throwing away the little money they have & harming themselves when doing it. Socialism (I'm not one) doesn't have to be about throwing more money at the poor to level them up, it's giving them the tools to do it themselves. Nothing more basic than being able to keep yourself healthy. And its not that I'm an animal rights or Eco nut although I like the green bits and even the odd furry bit here and there : rather a very selfish way on my part to make our comfortable lives sustainable rather than lazily gluttoning now to starve later.
don't disagree with you on that. but if you look at the cost of a pack of economy burgers and economy bread, it really is quite cheap and nasty. But the choice to waste money on fast food rather than cook your own for less money and eat a more balanced diet is quite difficult to understand. Boiling carrots and cabbage isn't difficult...
frank, A very well but I believe misdirected argument. You appear to want to turn back the clock to an age that never really existed. In towns and cities it was always possible to buy prepared food - at the lowest prices. Just look at what our shelves are stocked with now and you could find them nice and hot in nearly all city neighbourhoods. You could also find the raw ingredients. You are right when you say that it is a matter of culture. But let's not get carried away as we are with the health lobby on issues such as smoking and drinking. I know of nobody who actually wants to cull badgers. The farmers just lack a vaccine that they can use. After all their herds are contained and vaccination is a fairly simple matter for them. The cost can be absorbed simply. Attempting the same in a wild badger population is a non-starter. But until such times as an acceptable vaccine is developed then we at least have to try other options. One of those options is culling. It may not be the best option but in the absence of any other it must at least be trialled. The farming industry in this part of the world is on its knees. So let's have the trial and actually see what the results are. The area of the trial is very limited so any damage that is done will be contained. As far as possible I prepare and cook my own food. But then I have the time, money and experience with which to do that. The same cannot be said for the rest of the population. Yes let's bring back cookery into the school time-table, I think it's a very good idea and add some basic money management for household bills - but it's going to take 20 years to have any effect! I don't know why you're having a dig at Socialism (and I count myself as one). The 'culture' that we endure today is a product more of capitalism than socialism.
Arguably we are living in the age of hypercapitalism where superficiality, the market/economy, GNP and consumer satisfaction take prominence and become the norm at the expense of traditional culture and a genuine care for human beings and the environment we live in. The badger cull in this sense would just be seen as necessary collateral because humans are bodies that need to be fed at any cost. The prominence and availability of supermarket ready meals and so forth just another part of the hypercapitalist urge to acquire and the neglect of the basic needs of the many. Fredric Jameson and Johan Galtung have written on this quite extensively.
I'm not sure what hypercapitalism actually means. I cannot therefore pass comment upon its effect upon or its possible effect upon the culture the pervades all of our human activity. We continue to lie to ourselves by suggesting that life is far faster these days and that we must move with it. This is the big lie that has corrupted all of out economic and hence cultural activity. Therefore the prominence and availability of ready meals and take aways are merely reflections of that big lie. Don't know waht that means for the badger cull though!
Stop derailing, you blue ****. This is about badgers. Not your culinary expertise. Start your own ****ing thread
It's an evolutionary stage of capitalism, capitalism in an ultra aggressive, more dominant and invasive form. Galtung relates it to global inequality, where everything of wealth and value is transported upwards and away from the bottom of society, I guess a good example in that context are sweatshops providing items for fast fashion in the west. In terms of the badger cull, using the frame of this argument and thinking about the food industry, badgers, since they're not human, are seen as both an obstacle that needs to be removed in the process of getting that wealth/value from the bottom to the top as efficiently as possible, and also as a possible pollutant for the raw materials, crops etc, that comprise the valuable end product, whether that's a fresh vegetable, a box of cereal or a ready meal. The bottom hear would be represented by the cheap/minimum wage (or below) migrant labour picking root vegetables in fields, or strawberries in vast greenhouses on industrial scale farms and the top by the consumer in Sainsburys. The irony of course is that the bottom are sometimes part of the consumption process meaning that this value system can be cannibalistic and incestuous.
Actually, yes I do, despite the terrible typo in that which I'm sure RHC will be along to chastise me for imminently. #Idon'teditmyspellingmistakes #I'mwaiting
