[h=1]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23176481#[/h]Don't suppose we should be surprised. Worrying though that the future isn't looking any brighter based on the U21's and the U20's recently. I know we've discussed this before but are too many foreign players the main cause or should we just accept we aren't actually that good?
Foreign players is a lazy excuse. It may mean fewer English players get pitch time, but the "best" ones still do. We just aren't very good, from grassroots to the very top, we're a long way behind the likes of Germany and Spain.
Well that's more accurate than 4th or wherever we were last time. Our WC qualifying results have not been particularly stellar and we lost in a friendly to Sweden which won't be helping. You can argue that we've been punching above our weight results-wise for a while, considering how poorly we've played.
We're only one year into some major academy changes so I don't think it's time for open revolt yet. The U21 squad wasn't very good particularly up front, I didn't even know we had an U20 team which seems like the U21 reserves, so not too bothered about that (why have both competitions at the same time when there is obviously overlap?). And if it all goes completely wrong, then our academy will save the day.
The biggest problem with England, and this has continued for years is sticking with the favoured players and not picking those in form. Without looking at Saints there are many players that could have been chosen at various times in their careers, but because they do not play for the 'big 6' generally they get overlooked. The whole fiasco of the FIFA rating system is as flawed as that organisation itself.
It's the coaching at grass roots level that needs to change. Kids need teaching how to keep the ball, how to dribble, how do tricks with it, how to play keepy uppy, and not how to get rid of it as soon as they get the thing.
Oh how I remember people shouting get rid at me, as a kid. I'd look around and there would be a challenge coming, so I'd hurriedly pass the ball, probably not the best thing I could have done with it. Very quickly, I decided sod 'em, and evaded the challenge or moved into space which gave me time to see openings and movement. I think that's a good point you make there Archers, because the get rid mentality can undermine a child's confidence, reliance in their own ability, and it is a physical form of passing the buck or responsibility. I'd ban it immediately..!
I think we have some great U21 players, already cutting it at the highest level, not available for the tournaments because the FA had arranged friendlies at the same time! How ridiculous is that? The friendlies we're considered more important? The problem is the FA, surely? I've seen some great changes in coaching / coaches. Problem is, they give Level 1 away for just turning up, and most go away and do whatever they want, regardless of the coaching they've received :-/ I've seen many really poor coaches with qualifications, and many of the parents would benefit from coaching / counselling too
On the subject of England's FIFA ranking, I think we all thought that the previous high placing was a bit of a joke anyhow. 15th place seems much more realistic.
In what way do you think the ranking system is flawed? When we were ranked 4th or wherever it was, so many of my friends would complain that the ranking system is clearly ridiculous, and flawed etc. However when pressed to explain how, they have no gripes with the way that the rankings are calculated. Their only gripe is that the rankings often conflict with their pre-existing prejudices, which is an unfair criticism. The way the system works I think is actually very good. It takes every result into account, and the amount of points that teams get/lose for a victory/loss is determined by factors such as the scoreline, the ranking of the opposition, and the competition in which the match took place (i.e. friendlies will reward less points than the World Cup). The system seems very well designed to me, and I'm not sure you're claim that the 'rating system is flawed' is particularly well grounded, unless you have any justification for it of which I'm unaware.
Agreed, gents. Young players are often discouraged from doing the correct or ambitious thing because they perhaps can't always master the execution. Coaches, and sometimes parents, stress about the possible negative outcome ( like it was important ). Managers are often discouraging, without a thought for how much praise they'd have heaped on the child if they'd executed the intended skill well, or a team mate had been switched on. I believe more changes are coming for next season.
Agree with most of the above about coaching. I'm all for moving the ball quickly but you need to develop the underlying skills first. Thats a long-tem issue but obviously needs to be addressed. What annoys me though is the team selection, what Chinasaint was talking about, players only being selected from the top teams. I got really angry the other day when Hodgson was asked his opinion on the Rooney situation. He basically said that it didn't matter because he would be a main part of the World Cup squad whatever happened. I would have preferred it if he'd said that it doesn't matter because he is over-rated and has continually under-performed whenever he's played for England and that he would not let him near another England squad. Oh and, by the way, that up-and coming Saints, Lambert player would be leading the line! But no, so another disaster looming.
I think England should perhaps be a little higher - I think we're better than Greece and Bosnia & Herzegovina, and I'm not sure how Columbia have got to third. one thing to note is that our significant results over the last year or so have been a victory and a draw against Brazil, but this would not have counted much for rankings as Brazil's ranking was so skewed by the fact that they weren't playing competitive internationals. So I think 10th-12th is about a fair position for England. As for the future, while the development teams haven't done so well, there are a few individuals who seem to have the potential to be at a good level for the senior team - Chalobah, Zaha and Shaw as good examples. There are also a few others who seem to have the potential to have the potential to be good senior players, like Sterling, Barkley (and perhaps you could throw JWP into this category). Whilst I don't think we have a team of potential superstars like Spain, I think there are young players who can be good for England, just not enough to make a successful development side.
How did England manage to produce so many great players in the past? Just think of Alan Ball, Bobby Moore, Gordon Banks, Bobby Charlton et al from 1966, Rodney Marsh and Colin Bell in the 70s, and the vintage from more recent times - Gascoigne, Linekar, John Barnes, Peter Beardsley, Chris Waddle!! All world class players who could express themselves with the ball. It makes me ask the question about the quality emerging from the academies now!! No one in the current crop of U20s, U21s or the senior team comes anywhere near that level now or will in the future. Oxlade-Chamberlain for example, is never going to be in the same league as Alan Ball or Peter Beardsley, and he is supposedly one of England's brightest prospects. I think an academy in those times would have curtailed the individuality and spirit those players displayed during their playing days.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/meet-gary-white-one-worlds-2052284 I posted this in Beefy's but probably more apt here. I know this lad (well, I played at Bognor Regis with him 20 years ago). This is another reason we suffer as a national team. People talk about not enough qualified coaches in England and here is a fella who is in top 16 qualified global coaches and works for an island national tema in the Caribbean. These people should be working over here and given a chance.
