I think we should know enough to distrust journos by now, DH, but it could be that he was promised good attacking players supporting him and the journo drew his/her own conclusions. Snods, Pilks and Wes fall into that category, IMO, but I hope that we will see another quality AM as well during the 'evolution' to come. In retrospect, I would also add Howson to that group after recent games. OTBC!
Rob, what do you think is a reasonable timescale to allow a manager to build a team capable of comfortably staying in the PL, from the starting position CH inherited from Paul Lambert? Do you really think that a single season with limited resources plus 10 weeks of the next is reasonable? I don't think Fergie would have survived at Man Utd on such a timescale! When you consider teams like Swansea and West Brom, for example, it has taken them far longer than that, and they were able to develop in less pressurised circumstances in the Championship or even lower leagues without high expectations of "success now". As I pointed out at the start of the season, getting back-to-back promotions had a huge impact on the club's financial situation but at the cost of the stability and gradual progression that a team like Swansea benefitted from. We were all anticipating a three-year spell in the Championship, building a side capable of promotion and with the make-up to survive immediate relegation and bounce back up. What happened was fantastic, but whatever people say about being where we deserve, we were ill-prepared in many ways and deprived of crucial development time. So our PL status has been, as it were, fast-tracked, and I myself think we need a bit more of a longer-term perspective and patience.
All fair points, I would agree that sometimes it takes longer. The number of players signed by Hughton over the last year (eight I think), plus another four or five over the summer, realistically, should be enough to make him feel like the squad is his own. I accept that it can take longer to mould a proper ethos. However, the reason that he is on last chance, in my book, isn't to do with him failing to build a team capable of comfortably staying in the PL (ironically, in purely table position we may end up looking quite comfortable). My reasoning is simply that I don't think the style of football is acceptable long term. I am aware that, at times this season, it has been necessary - even useful. I also accept that there will be times next season where going into a game as organised and defensive as possible will be the best way of getting points. However, I blame our terrible style in games beyond these moments (e.g. the multitude of unpleasant home games) completely upon Hughton's lack of faith in the players he has. I don't think that lack of faith is wholly justified. I hope that when he brings in a few new players he will show more faith. If he continues to show poor judgement in this regard, I really think he should go because football, at base, really is still about the fans and should be entertaining. If he fails to entertain at the times he should be, then he has to go. Ten weeks should be enough to show this.
I think I explained that all in the post you're refering to. Why should I accept the views of someone who doesn't support or watch my team and are basing their points on something that happened 3 years ago, when I am watching the here and now scenario, and consider it to be awful. We scraped through this season not because of the manager, it was in spite of the manager. Only one person on this forum forecast that 4-0 win on Sunday, it was completely out of the blue. We could have been faced with going to Man C needing to win by a hatfull to stay up, LUCKILY that's not the case, and I mean LUCKILY, as that's what it was! It does not mean that I won't support my team next season, because I will, I won't boo or jeer, I will still be there hoping and cheering with the rest, but I won't enjoy it if it's the same as this year. All the comments on here about how well Hughton is going to do next season with a different attacking style of play is pure speculation, it's not proven, this season you and I have just watched is the proof/fact, and it was pretty awful for the most part. I know these things to be true, because I WAS THERE!
Yes, that's right, it was lucky wasn't it. So lucky that Hughton finally got the tactics and motivation right, so very lucky that Howson's and Snodgrass's shooting was pin point accurate, so so lucky. And of course it was just incredibly lucky that Swansea happened to be a better team on the day they beat Wigan, what with Swansea fortunately being much better organised and Wigan luckily being terrible defensively - lucky of course because they've been rock solid all season whereas Swansea have been rubbish. And lest we forget, we are incredibly lucky that Wigan were beaten at home by Arsenal, just so lucky. So lucky that Santi Cazorla can play a brilliant ball and Walcott is so damn quick and damn lucky. And of course it is also incredibly lucky that seven teams have decided that, as of the 37th round of fixtures this season, they would graciously let us in ahead of them. That's the sort of luck we've been handed this season, episodes like the referee at Sunderland and Arsenal. Lucky us! [video=youtube;Lyt4KFyVQQ8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyt4KFyVQQ8&sns=em[/video] I am joking ILD . I actually agree with the whole of your post other than the luck part, but as you were having a dig I thought I'd take a swipe back... The fact is, luck, in whatever form it comes, will always exist in football. It has a mind of its own and is immeasurable, so it is tenuous at best to use it to back up your arguments. Only in very isolated incidents could you say something was down to luck. I think the case you make is strong enough without invoking it.
Wow, this has rumbled on... We're in danger of just constantly repeating everything over and over though now chaps. Basically, we've concluded with knowing who can say "I told you so" when ALL Norwich supporters are calling Hughton a god next year ilovedelia... it's silly disregarding someone's view because they don't support your club... seriously, why join a multi-sports/team forum if you're going to literally cry about someone else having an opinion on your club? It's just a fact that fanatical support takes you deeper into things and a more objective view from distance can be useful calibration. I've seen your team play multiple times, and first hand as well, having been a season ticket holder at my club for a while. Honestly, very little difference at St James' between Hughton's Canaries this year to Lambert's version before, except a stronger defensive unit. I didn't think we deserved anything from that game this year. Let's face it, the 4-2 only came about because we played our reserves, and we still gave you a game... with a RB and Willo at CB... Am I allowed to have an opinion now?
The proof and fact of what? That Hughton's Norwich team in the 2012-13 Premier League season played some dire football in the course of accumulating enough points to survive. Quite so, and there is no dispute about that at all, but it's not the issue. The issue is whether what we have seen/endured at times this season is truly representative of the style of football/level of entertainment to be expected from any Hughton team. It doesn't matter that Gandalf was watching Hughton's team of three years ago as they romped away in style with the Championship. He saw a Hughton team playing highly successful attacking, entertaining football such that the vast majority of Newcastle fans were left distraught when Hughton was replaced. That is not irrelevant when you come to form an opinion about Hughton as a manager. Likewise, what the Birmingham fans saw in their season under Hughton's management is relevant. In fact how Hughton's teams played at Newcastle and Birmingham is just as relevant when it comes to assessing him as a manager as what we have seen this season. You say "all the comments on here about how well Hughton is going to do next season with a different attacking style of play is pure speculation". But to claim that next season is going to be just like this one is just as much "pure speculation", and in the opinion of many of us actually less warranted than the more optimistic expectations that many of us have.
Who thinks we can keep going round in circles until the beginning of the new season? No one is likely to change opinions on someones forum say so, all sides of the CH in/out/in with limited time to prove he can entertain, have valid points. In or out we will not be party to the decision, So lets all just try to get along! My opinion is documented in the preceding posts but quite frankly the only way it will be changed is by the new season kicking off and the new evidence then presented. Who ever is at the helm I look forward to an exciting transfer window, even if there is a giant football shaped hole in life till August! Bah!
I agree with GM that we have really squeezed this one dry and should give it a rest now. This was attempted on the Pink'Un board and lasted about three posts and then was going around in circles again. I hope that we are better than that on here and can shift our attention to potential new signings and a better team for next year.
Yes, I agree too. The only important decision is whether Hughton stays at the club for the start of next season, and it looks like that decision has been made. So there's no point us going round and round in circles until the new season is here and we see how things pan out.
So basically you're saying that you have a right to a view, and therefore you must be right, on the other hand, I have a view and because I disagree with you I must be wrong or silly! As I said previously I've been to every game this season bar 2, I know what I've seen, and in some games it's been appalling, especially the two games against Wigan & Stoke, where for the 7th time this season we recorded NO shots on goal. We should have been battering their door down for 3 points, but we didn't. OK you wouldn't blame the manager for the first couple of no shot games, but after 7 then you would expect him to put it right or at least have a plan B. I believe the cup tie against Non League Luton was also a no shot game, which we lost 0-1, are you beginning to get the picture! I don't agree with what you're saying, I'm entitled to do that especially on my own board!
A couple of things to consider here Robbie, If Hughton was so fantastic at Newcastle, why was he sacked? It is pure speculation, it hasn't happened yet therefore cannot have any base in fact, what has just past for the last year has happened and is fact. Show me some proof that next season will be completely different and I'll shut up! But until then I still have a point of view which I will air on here as I see fit! I have that right the same as you do!
I think there were fewer/'ess games where no shots occured, we hit the post against luton and had sme scrambled off the line but they may have been from headers. Actually all I care about is that the opportunity to progress
Not for playing dire defensive football. His Championship winning team of 2009-10 won the league ahead of West Brom with 102 points and a goal difference of +55. They scored 90 goals while conceding just 35. I would say that indicates a team potent in attack and solid in defence, exactly what all of us would like to see.
I agree about dragging this one too much further, we have to disagree on our footballing wish lists and philosophies but I would like to make my last contribution. I think your analogy with the 2009/10 Championship winning squad is unfair. He had a Prem team in the Championship. Harper, Enrique, Collicini, Taylor, Guthrie, Collicini, Simpson, Lovenkrands, Guitierrez, Nolan, Routledge, Carroll were all sharks in a small pond. And with that team you are not going to play 4-5-1 when you are at home to Barnsley!
