Why do posters who have been content with what has been served up recently, have to sound so exasperated with those of us who don't. We don't understand your position either but to make comments as if we are disloyal, traitorous and don't understand football is crass to say the least.
A lot of words there, but, are you seriously suggesting that Chris Hughton planned it this way?? If you are then I give up.
I didn't want to have these conversations so soon after surviving because I thought we all deserved a few days just to enjoy it, but it seems they won't go away. I think those of us who have been highly critical of CH have to accept that the majority feeling seems to be like that expressed by Robbie and that CH will be here next season. Unlike Robbie, I am not optimistic, but I hope I will be proved very wrong. I am sick of hearing the mantra that survival was all that mattered and that we should ignore all the worrying signs just because we finally came good and stuffed West Brom in one game. I am also sick of hearing how limited our players are compared to almost every other squad in the league and how the only way we can survive is therefore defending in depth. I am also sick of people who go to every match - like ILD - being treated like traitors because they have different opinions and Carrabuh being sarcastically abused by bullies like Beefy. I know Carrabuh can well look after himself but I think there should be a basic level of respect shown for fellow supporters which some of those in the pro-Hughton camp have not shown. We have become fractious and unpleasant and we can't even rejoice together. I know it's been a long, hard season but perhaps we should all just step back and not discuss Hughton for a while.
redruth, I haven't noticed anyone saying you're disloyal, from my viewpoint, ie the "happy clappers" i find those of you calling for the manager's head impatient, but certainly not disloyal! How can it be disloyal to want what you think is best for our club? We may not agree with your assessment but that doesn't make either side disloyal! Hope that clears that up!
That's fine, but you have to practise what you preach. Carrabuh throws his weight around just as much and when even the smallest hole is picked in what he says he sticks his fingers in his ears and chants "nanananana I'm not listening". In other words, they are each as bad as each other. Both of them are obnoxious and slam other's opinions without foundation. Both think being a little bit childish is funny (which it can be) and a strong way to score points in an argument (which it can't be). I don't see why Beef is getting all the flak here.
Sorry Dave but certain posts have alluded to the fact that if you aren't with us then you're against us. And that just isn't true. I could ask how many would be on here if we were in the Conference? Poor old ILD has had some crap thrown at him and you won't get a more fervent City supporter. I respect nearly everyone's opinion on here and am delighted to argue the point with them. Pity there isn't a cyber bar we were all leaning up against to argue the points. (Your round by the way). I just wanted it to be said for hopefully the last time, we are all in this together. It's just some oars are on the port side and some on the starboard but when we all row together we go forward.
I take your point redruth, I do believe you but I don't recall seeing any, but that goes with the job I suppose, when it's all kicking off we get a bit busy and in order to keep up, I have to speed read, I like your portrayal of port and starboard, very apt! Anyway, bollocks to all our doubters, WE ARE PREMIER LEAGUE!
I agree that "we are all in this together" and do respect both sides of the argument. I also think that there are those in both camps who fail to be objective in their analysis and end up being subjective and abusive as a result. I do think that some recent matches have been 'dire' as 'entertainment', but I also accept that there won't be as much 'entertainment' in PL games as there would be in CL games. Neither do I believe that it was all entertaining under PL last year which is why I pointed out that: "at this time last year we were on the end of a miserable run of 2 wins, 3 draws and 8 defeats, scoring 14 goals and conceding 27! In the equivalent 13 matches this year, we have won 3, drawn 5 and lost 5, scoring 13 goals and conceding 16" Except for the Spurs win and the draw at Arsenal, I didn't find that run very entertaining either, but no one was calling for PL to be sacked. IMO, life will always be tough in the PL because it is an unrelentingly tough league to play in.
Of course he didn't plan it like that, nor did I say that he did. What I said was that the way things panned out in the latter half of the season was the result of a number of factors and it is quite simply silly to think the, at times dire, football reflected the manager's intentions and preferred style of play. I repeat: IMO Chris Hughton's aim "is to play attractive, attacking football from the base of a sound defence (in the tradition of the Spurs sides of which he was part for many years)". You can't have sensible debate if people put words into others' mouths and insist on reading into posts what simply isn't there.
Rob, if you were at the pre-season games then the intent for the season was plain to see, it wasn't that we were unlucky, we were just very very defensive and negative! So I ask you what was his intention then, and where is the attacking attractive football you allure to? I have been to away games (recently Wigan & Stoke) and I defy anyone to tell there was any intention to play anything other than dire defensive football. They were the 2 worst games I've seen my team play this season, when we should have been scrapping for our lives! I know you don't like people saying anything bad or critising the club but they were 100% god awful games to watch!
Interesting comment. I've heard of a few fans who are not renewing their season ticket and the reason they give is the style of football we've had to endure for several games this season. IMO, I think thye're being rather short-sighted and there could well be other factors influencing their decision. I'm sure there are several other fans on teh waiting list for season tickets who'll be feeling happy as a result.
I haven't been on the board for several weeks, so it may be true that some people have been saying that "survival is all that matters", but I didn't say that. I said "the single thing that mattered most in the context of the long term interests of Norwich City Football Club, was survival". That doesn't mean that other things don't matter, just that survival mattered MORE at this juncture in time. What are these "worrying signs", and what makes them "worrying"? What I take you to mean is that, as far as the future under Chris Hughton's management is concerned, we can take the direst performances of the last few months as a clear signal of what we can expect henceforth. One might ask why there is no mention of any of the far from dire performances that we have also witnessed this season. Why do people insist on seeing the dire one's as bearing Hughton's stamp, rather than the better ones? I say again: on-field perfomance is the product of many different factors. I believe Chris Hughton has been as frustrated as any of us at times, possibly even more so. It is patently obvious from his comments and his touchline behaviour that, on many occasions the team hasn't done what he intended. It is perverse to think that what the team does or doesn't do simply reflects what he has told them to do or not to do. Regarding the players, except for one or two instances, they have done us proud throughout the season, just as they did last season and seasons before. But I don't see how anyone can deny that one of the main reasons why they have not produced the kind of football that we all want to see is because they haven't been able to when faced by stronger squads with players of greater technical ability and tactical nous. It is a simple fact that we have been undone on several occasions by gifted players with whom we simply couldn't cope. That is not to do our players down; it is a statement of the obvious, that some players are better than others. Plenty on here are looking forward to the summer transfer window. Why? Because they know our squad needs improvement, i.e. we need to replace some of our current players with BETTER ones. Finally, I personally am no believer in "defending in depth", but nor IMO is Chris Hughton. What he believes in is "defending as a team". Chelsea won the European Championship last year by defending in depth in their matches against Barcelona and Bayern. Barcelona and Bayern don't defend in depth (though Bayern did resort to that to some extent against Barcelona), but they do defend as a team. Much of what Chris Hughton has been doing this year, with an eye to the future, is coaching the players to defend as a team. If they have too often resorted to defending in depth, that is due to many different reasons and is part of the learning process. We will reap the benefit of this next season.
CH's primary job this season will have been to stay up. Whether we like it or not anything else such as playing attractive football or having a cup run would be seen as secondary and icing on the cake. For all of the dross that was served up to us in the second half of the season CH has hit his target. We are up and on the gravy train and whilst he can take the brickbats for our poor performances he should also be given the credit for getting us to a point in 2012 when we could afford to have such a poor run and still stay up.. Should McNally and Co. decide to keep CH then he will undoubtedly have the biggest transfer budget in the club's history to spend and given this opportunity I am sure that McNally will be looking at a different set of goals for next season and I sincerely hope we will have the players AND the ambition to play a more expansive game. Having let him break the club's transfer record I can't see the board getting rid in the Summer and if they let him spend in the close season then getting rid next year makes little sense as we would end up in the same situation we were at the start of this season with a new man coming in and wanting to fill the squad with "his" players. For me it is next season CH should be judged on when he has better players and players he wants at the club. If he spends big and fails then there is nowhere to hide and he will be removed. I like to think that if he has kept us up with the current squad then he will do better with a stronger squad.
I think what Rob is questioning is the reverse logic that has been applied - 'the result was dire, therefore the intention was dire'. In the 8 losses last year I cited earlier from the same 13 games (games 25-37), City scored 3 goals and conceded 19. Is that what you consider 'entertaining' football? I think what we 'glasses half full' contingent find difficult is the view that everything was rosy last year and that everything is 'dire' this year. Those two games you cite were 'dire', as were others, but what do you say about those 8 losses last year, scoring 3 and conceding 19. Were they not 'dire' as well?
I was at some of the pre-season games ILD. What I saw was not the manager's "intent for the season", but a clear indication that he believed the players needed to quickly LEARN to defend better as a team. I also saw a team whose players were indeed trying to learn but had a long way to go before they were comfortable with what was being asked of them and before it become more or less second nature. They are still learning, but have made progress. I didn't say the team were serving up attractive attacking football (though they have on occasions, e.g Swansea away, and yesterday). I said that that is the type of football Hughton aims to get his team to play. I would guess that Hughton has been disappointed by the inability of the team to balance a more disciplined approach to defending with continued sharpness in attack. What people see as Hughton banning his midfield from giving too much support to the forward players, is, IMO a failure on the players' part to hit the right balance. (Of course other factors affect their ability to get it right, like how much pressure the opposition is able to exert on them.) I have no objection at all to people criticising the club, the manager or the players. But I do object to criticism which I think is unfounded.
Snob I'm not saying I have the remedy, I just think people getting on Chris Hughton's back after one season seem a bit short of the "facts", even though they ram that same line down everyone's throat... Newcastle aren't a "big club", unless you count ticket sales... do you count ticket sales? No, nobody does when they talk about big club's, so stop being so precious and hurt because I'm willing to speak my mind with clarity YOU'RE DELUSIONAL... Is this the playground? Seriously guys... b) So you have no clear idea of what you want, helpful... so long as you finish mid-table and are happy... though you have no idea what kind of football makes you happy... Just blindly shooting at goal? You can have Cisse if you want You've just scored 4 goals. Or is that another weird stick to beat Hughton with? "Why don't we score 4 every time? "... Hughton doesn't tell your players to play rubbish upfront, and he doesn't tell them not to shoot on goal, does he? He's worked on making the team difficult to beat having molded a centre-back partnership this season which he can take onto next season. I wish our squad had ONE aspect of our team settled... We don't. We're terrible across the board. Same with many teams in trouble, and most of them have ten times the resources or Norwich. Come on, be fair, how can you EXPECT to finish mid-table when you've spent next to nowt and teams like Southampton, Newcastle, Sunderland etc have spent £30 million this season? And they've all gone massively backwards. g) It's sooooo silly to say that's what I call progression. In fact it's really childish to throw that rubbish at me. Read what I said again please ... better still, don't bother and just keep bleating back how much of an arse I am e) Paul Lambert left to further his career... Why does any manager leave any club when they aren't sacked? More money to spend and a better squad of players to play with. And he's done less than Hughton has with your lot. If it wasn't for Benteke, they'd be down. d) boring. Don't bother joining or contributing to a multi-board forum if you don't want to interact with other fans, or read their views... And what has Pardew got to do with this? I've already discussed Pardew... oh wait... you don't read my posts...
But in general the 'dire performances' did not come against teams who were packed with superstars. That is one thing that CH has done right this season - we ended up with 12 points against the top six and should have had more considering what happened at Arsenal. The matches where we were dire were Stoke and Wigan away, QPR twice, Southampton at home, etc. That was the problem this season and CH seemed to have no idea what to do about it.
No but we have had both managers and we all no which one we would prefer. The second season for norwich was always going to be tough, if you look at what pardew had at his disposal vs hughton you will see the difference. Fingers crossed Ricky van w potential Will flourish as he could be top draw And a few etc players you boys will Do well next year QUOTE=Bravo_Win_or_Die;4728322]Aree you saying the same about Pardew, now that you have also secured your Premiership survival?[/QUOTE]
