He did what he thought was right in splitting the partnership up, which I can appreciate as good leadership in solving a potential problem, but he screwed up royally in claiming it was for 'footballing' reasons and, imo, in picking Terry over Ferdinand who was arguably the better player at that time.
Of course they are. They call opposition players black bastards and then celebrate a goal by one of their own black players.
Having checked back you didn't. Since my comment was mainly about Rio I wrongly took it as a defensive response. Fair enough if Rio was pissed off with who he was treated by Roy, who wouldn't be. However, you don't continually say you are available and want to play for your country to then refuse when called up giving a cock and ball story about fitness regimes before flying to Qatar anyway. Rio can't have been pissed off enough with how he was treated in the summer to spite Roy otherwise he would have told Roy to do one before meeting him.
They also call players fat, ugly, ginger etc but celebrate a similar playing scoring for them. Fans can be fickle. PS...Rio is a prick though
I disagree, but I think it comes down to definition of racism and how you see it. You've got people who dislike those of a certain race (or any race not their own) - regardless of anything else. Simple racists. And you've got people who'll use someone's race as a means to abuse them, just as they would abuse someone over being fat, skinny, ginger, gay, whatever else. I wouldn't call them racists as such, they don't 'hate' those traits, but they're looking for an 'easy' way to lob abuse at them rather than because they scored a goal against them, spilt their pint, etc. Hence, a black player scoring against them would hear, "you cheating black bastard", whereas a black player scoring for them would hear, "you ****ing legend". I would term those people stupid, rather than racist. But I can see why others would use the latter.
Fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion. There's much about Rio that is understandably disliked by many. I can only speak from personal experience though and he helped us out with a charity event. He couldn't have been easier to deal with. In contrast to many other sports "personalities".
I know west Ham fans who think Anton is a ****. And, as i said on the Chelsea thread, whenever we sung about one Neville brother we usually sung about the other for gratutious sake anyway. But anyway, here's another way of looking at it from a racial point of view, and why Rio is despised by most outside Man Utd: what colour is ashley Cole? surely if Chelsea fans deserted him and didn't show their displeasure at Rio's insults of him for not altering his evidence in a criminal court to suit a racial agenda they themselves would be racist too? This 'how dare you boo a racism 'victim' was the pious cant slurped up in ladelfuls by the Sunday Supplement crew (especially that fat ****shaft Samuel) the day after evra was booed in the FA cup tie at Anfield last year. Totally oblivious to the fact that our black, asian and oriental fans were booing him as vigorously as the rest of the home crowd. It doesn't seem to cross the minds of the the racial police that some people are ****ing hated because they're arseholes regardless of the colour of their skin. Did United fans continuously boo Ian Wright because he was black, I ask? As for Powar now - truly we're in a witchhunt hysteria. He sees it as his 'duty' to ensure all allegations of 'racism' (and note how he now stretches the definition of that to be anything he wants it to be) are investigated thoroughly. Funny how that doesn't extend to calling someone a coconut who disagrees with you.
Was it? For 'certain'? I can only conclude that you must have thought the song up if you're so certain as to its message. They sang about Anton because he's related to Rio. It's a little strange that they bothered to mention him, but not unfathomable considering the nature of the song. Most likely they just needed another line, and that was the best they could think of. Holt's article, as with much of his work on race issues, is beyond appalling. Choosing to ignore that the motivation behind the song was clearly Rio's sudden withdrawal from the England squad and equally sudden trip to Qatar, Holt reduces the matter to 'white men singing about black players.' If it had been, for example, Gary Neville withdrawing from the squad under such circumstances, the same songs would be sung, but the racism claim would be nowhere in sight. Holt even references the fact that United fans used to sing it about Scousers proves that the song is based on hatred and antagonism, not race. That he brings the KKK into it is absolutely absurd. The man has no sense of irony; reading almost every controversy on racial terms (if the parties happen to be of different skin colours) is in itself a racist way of interpreting things. The fact is, some white people will hate some black people, and vice versa. Not because they are black, or white, but because they think they're a ****, the same way they hate people of their own colour. It's as simple as that. If only Holt would stop grasping for the top shelf with his bull**** article titles. The guy even presents his nonsense conclusions, which he draws purely to support the rest of his article, as gospel: "But this was about more than just his questionable decision to withdraw from the England squad and then fly to Qatar and appear as a pundit for Al Jazeera." Was it? Does he have absolute proof that it was 'about more' than just that? Why did the same chants not occur in the Montenegro game? Why did the 'racist mob' go on to cheer the goals of Defoe, Ox, Young and Sturridge?
"Certainly"... and the infuriating thing is that this is all the level of 'evidence' that is needed for an FA 'independent' panel.
I'm not one for defending England fans (I remember their treatment of Barnes only too well) but that's horse ****. Surely it's because he's his brother not just "a brother". At the end of the day Rio wants it both ways....anything potentially offensive said against him is now "racism" because he's the self appointed Man Who Speaks For All Black Men and yet anything potentially offensive he says (or laughs at) can't possibly be "racially" offensive even if it's a reference to skin colour.
Can't remember Rio ever apologising to black or Asian Scousers and condemning the Utd faithful for singing the 'racist' bonfire song.
You sang about the Nevilles because they played for United. If Phil Neville had never played for United (or Everton) he wouldn't have made your radar. Why don't you sing about Joel Cantona or the brothers of any other United player? Anton Ferdinand has never played for England. It makes no sense for England fans to sing about him unless they had another motive and in this case it was because they were offended that he took offense to being racially abused. Most of you are seemingly intelligent people so you know that. As I said, I can understand why people would hate Rio. Most footballers come across as pretty loathsome and Rio has won far too much with United for any Liverpool fan to like him. In general he talks too much when he should be keeping his thoughts to himself. Those of you who are also England fans could well feel slighted by the fact that he ****ed with Woy (ironically a man you believe to be an incompetent manager who actually treated Rio shambolically) although I doubt you hold anything against Carragher for quitting international football because he wasn't a first choice centre back. The defense of players based on club loyalty is disappointing but understandable as otherwise rational and intelligent people are driven stupid by club bias but targeting the victims of racial abuse and condeming them as the villain is disgusting. As for Oliver Holt, don't read what he writes, he's a sensationalist hack. Similarly if you hear Adrian Durham on the radion, switch it off as whatever he says is designed to get a rise out of someone or other.
You're joking right! Carragher retired Rio was dropped! Rio was handed a way back into the national team having spent a whole 2 months re cultivating the argument about why he was dropped and then withdrew from the national team! He actually illustrated perfectly what a mardy twat he is! I don't condone racism of any nature but this thread rapidly became a 'us and them' battle and descended at a rapid speed. Whatever the reasoning behind the song, Rio's still a twat! Hodgson was, and in my opinion still is a woeful manager, but you should see that it should be a privilege to pull on the England shirt and in my eyes, Rio tainted that. If I was to air my feelings on Carr quitting England I'd say he should be commended for the way he handled it all. He wasn't first choice and realised he would probably not be called up again. That's not to say he wasn't good enough, he just didnt fit the style/tactics the managers had in mind. He didnt whine like a bitch for months on end about him being dropped for any other reason than he was a square peg and we had a round hole!
Playing for England is a privilege but you commend Carragher for refusing to be selected as a squad player. Brilliant Scouse logic! Set aside the Rio hatred. It was the chanting about Anton Ferdinand, who has never played for England, which is the main issue here. You all know that he was targeted for one reason.
You missed (or choose to ignore) the point! Carragher WAS fed up of not being played and subsequently retired. However, no one is condemning players that do not wish to play for their country, that is their choice. No one moaned about Scholes or shearer retiring early! Since the summer, Rio has continuously moaned about being dropped and the reasons why, he has also continuously said he wants to continue playing for his country. He even met up with Roy to discuss using the fitness regime excuse before flying to Qatar
Why bring Carragher into it? The situations are entirely different. It was clear from the beginning that your argument was yet another dig at "scousers" thinly disguised as an analysis of the situation. You turn it into an attack on Liverpool fans regardless of the subject. You twist people's words to make it appear that they're saying something they're not. It's transparent and dull. Of course the criticism of Rio has a lot to do with him playing for Utd, but there are bigger, more serious social issues here. It's about his reaction to any criticism of him- his insinuation that all criticism is unfounded and that anyone who dares to have a go is motivated purely by racism and not by any genuine appraisal of his actions or attitude. It's also about the usual media hacks and others who jump on the same bandwagon. Why not keep the discussion to this rather than turn it into the same old tired Utd/ LFC tit-for-tat argument?
