crupmet. i guess what i mean is he put out in my opinion a game plan that played into thier hands rather than gving LFC the best chance of success. 4-5-1 v 4-5-1 was what we saw. thats what i think i saw first half anyway... henderson and shevely were chasing about, downing was staying wide and suarez was still playing false 9 so we were very blunt and had nobody i nthe box. when i say we were not set up for the win I don't mean it was for a draw but rather it failed to give us the game plan and setting to acheive.... now you could ask me what esle could be done without sturridge as borini is the other option i suppose.... you are right he did try to bring on the attacking players. my thing here is he took off henderson and shelvey while putting on a forward and a winger. So this i thought was predicated on us seeing west brom defending for the draw. All clarke did was ride his luck, play defensiveyl then take the postive decision to put the forward on and not just swap forwards. when he did that they had pace to play in cos we had 4 guys up the pitch...and yet i thought lucas and gerrard still worked on it. I do totally agree borini was poor and stelring was easily marked. they did cost us the game but it took clarkes reaction (lukaku's shot led to that corner) to get the bit fo luck west brom took.... Its hard to say how we'd get set up other wise but i'd have liked us to commit to the "new plan" ie... someone up therewith suarez behind instead of reverting to what i call the failed tactic of a false 9 and width without penetration. If in that case borini was terrible ok... he tried to be positive but it didn't work.... you get me.. i'd rather he went for a player swap rather than this 4-5-1 thing that was just not working for the first 4 months of the season. Maybe the buck ought not to stop with rodgers, and maybe a bit of luck, a deflection or unsighting foster form one of many chances or gerrard burying that pen would hide the issues.... i just happen to think the consistent issues like aggers defending from set piece play and goals going in constantly are still happening.
I'm not missing any point, it's an opinion that I have. I simply don't think it was tactics or the system and believe it was down to the collective attitude of the whole team. It wasn't down to Man City coming out and playing that we did so well it was down to the fact that the players were more up for that game than they were last night. If they had approached the WBA game with the same attitude as City or Arsenal we would have won despite them defending deep. IMO of course, but that point may well be up for debate.
The people now going on about tactics and the system used are not wrong but it is a separate argument. Some players did try to some degree and 1 or 2 had good games (Carra, Lucas) but even with them playing well it was not enough as the whole group were not playing as one towards a collective goal and I include the management team in that, Pascoe for example also needs to be more active and vocal.
I've been trying to find the right words to discuss what is wrong with our team spirit and haven't yet got it right. However, the synthisis is that the spirit within the group does not appear to be good enough. When you listen to Gerrard and Carra you hear phrases like "When you come to Liverpool.......". To some extent you also hear this from Agger and the local youngsters. From the others you hear "When you come to a club LIKE Liverpool......." They just don't recognise the difference. Most of us have grown up with the myth that to wear and deserve the Liverpool shirt demands that you are prepared to run through brick walls. It's a totally different reality to the I am at a big club (but it could be any big club) to hone and demonstrate MY skills. Well I've got news for all of those who hold to the 2nd philosophy. It's Liverpool's shirt. It's our shirt: and to quote the great Bill Shankly "It's not your leg it's Liverpool's leg". Until we get that spirit back we'll remain also -rans.
This why I kick every ****er around me when I wear my Liverpool shirt to the pub! PS...totally agree too
Dave - good post mate, I agree with that, it's something that has been lost by most big clubs in the current era. As much as I hate to admit it, the only current club who still has that mystique is United & that's only because of Ferguson, who has preserved the old school mentality
In England, yes. But I think Barcelona and Real Madrid have that stance too. I think if you are one of the top sides then you can have this approach, unfortunately player power is too strong nowadays, they know if a club doesn't match their demands then someone else will, until all clubs are singing from the same sheet it won't happen again. The day that salary caps was lifted was the day it all went wrong! The introduction of the Premier League, Bosman transfer and mega-rish owners have done nothing to help the cause either
I can't prove it but it's that lack of spirit - even more than a lack of finance - that has bedevilled both of our clubs. I'm not sure what it is that Ferguson has retained in the United sides. I don't think it has the same degree of passion but it is effective!
Is that true? A team is a blend of skills, physical prowess and mental strength. For the team to maximise its potential the blend has to be the best whereas the individuals do not have to be the 'best' possible. None of our great sides that dominated the whole of Europe were composed of the 'best' players possible. So I still believe that it is possible to put together a team of so called lesser players who combined contribution makes them more effective than their competitors.
I don't think they played that bad. Apart from Shelvey, who I think should go out on loan. We got caught poor defending and in the break. If gerrard had scored we would have won. Time to move on and support the team. Have faith in Rodgers. Give him time.
I don't think the individuals matter so much although it does help to have a star player or two, I think the trophy cabinet matters. Man Utd are a perfect example, the general consensus is that their squad isn't the best yet they are there or thereabouts every single season and they pick up more than their fair share of silverware. If you can offer players guaranteed medals then it puts the club in a much stronger position. Of course, once you are there you have that power, it is getting into that position that creates a problem PS...not saying I agree or disagree with the view on Man Utd's squad
We have moved on time and time again and this is not about people supporting the team, you will find many articles on here pointing fingers at individuals this was not meant to be one of them. I wanted to put across a point and I'm really glad that it's been a good thread with a bit of thinking applied, MITO and Dave have added interesting debate, something other than the usual "if we buy 10 players we will be fine". I'm fully behind Rogers and this team but it doesn't mean I'm going to put up with what I see as a lack of effort and pride in that shirt.
Sorry mate I just picked 2 that sprung to mind, Spearing also started with a good comment. It's just good that on occasion a thread does actually stay serious and on topic. I'm one who ****s about a lot and long may this board have a sense of humour but that game really got to me and I thank everyone for taking the thread seriously. Asking for trouble now that I've posted that, I expect the octopus and Zingy any moment.
I think under Rafa and Kenny the lesser teams shut up shop and the bigger teams had a go, allowing us the space to pass and move through them. Under Rodgers anybody who presses us seems to get success.
