And the team that has been champions of their respective league the most times. It is the league of such champions after all. Tho' such a club would usually be good enough to qualify based on skill and achievement, so wouldn't need to rely on istoree
Winning the Europa league should definitely be rewarded with a place in the Champions League. But I dont think they should replace the lowest qualifying club from there own countries league if they dont qualify for the Champions League via the league (like Chelsea pinching 4th spot). It should be a specific Europa League winners spot.
Lfc just love clutching at straws. It worked in their favour when Everton took their place but they need to learn the rules cannot always be changed in their favour. Mid- table clubs in the prem should never be allowed into the competition, no matter what their history is.
I don't see why, any more than if Bradford City win the League Cup they should be rewarded with a place in the Premier League next season. There's a league structure and system for qualifying for the CL, much as there's a structure and system for qualifying to play in the PL. Winning the EL should be the reward - teams shouldn't be competing in it purely for the money they can earn next season. It's already mickey mouse enough with the CL failures getting bailed into it, why devalue it any more? The only reason the proposal has had support from these 207 clubs is that there are currently 76 spots in the CL. So 141 clubs asked don't currently have a CL spot and would happily sell their grannies for the chance of getting on the gravy train.
Same argument could have been be used when they changed the qualification rules for the original 'Champions of Europe club competition', but if those rules hadn't changed we wouldn't have won in Istanbul and Utd wouldn't have won the treble. Be careful what you wish for.
But we would have won in 2009, what with Barcelona having not being champions of Spain in 2008 and us being the only semi finalists to have won our domestic league. There would also have been no Real to knock us out in 2000, no Leverkusen in 2002. no Bayern in 2010, and no Benfica in 11/12. And people wonder why the CL is harder to win...
Wait did you just make an argument using CL for champions only, then turn around and defend the new format as well?
You make it sound like Utd would have walked it because Real, Barca, Bayern etc where not in the competition in the years you mentioned, but there's no way to guarantee or know if Utd would have won it.
Honestly... I think the whole Europa League is a wasted tournament. I wouldn't mind an enlarged Champions League make it more like a pan-European FA cup. Give national champions bys into later rounds. ...but I'm fine with it as is... its the Europa that seems a little wasted...giving the champion an auto berth into CL would help but minimally.
1. as a rule of principle i would agree with this. there are more than enough means in qualifiers to make an extra team no problem 2. I do not say this cos lfc happen to be in the tin pot cup. 3. For me the tv moeny needs changing cos clubs dropping into the thing don't give a damn and get a slice of the pie so i think thats not working either... uefa have GOT to force this comp on the tv companies paying for the CL and up the prize money if they really want a second cup 4. i think its high time they admitted what the need to do and amalgamate the two to be a european league... we all know thats the end game.
I agree with this idea, it would give a really good indicator as to how good respective leagues are too. For example, I think even QPR or Reading would beat APOEL who get an almost guaranteed buy in to the Champions league every year because they're in the Cyprus premier league. So naturally those leagues and teams would get knocked out early on. The only problem is the spread of money. UEFA will not want to spread out Champions league money and end up diluting it further.
What a terrible, terrible parallel to draw Swarbs, especially when you consider that the League Cup winners actually automatically get a place in the Europa League qualifications. Indeed, the EL winners going into the CL the next season is very similar to the current arrangement of League Cup winners going into the EL. Is there not a 'a league structure and system for qualifying' for the EL? In both cases a few teams who may have otherwise qualified via their league position will be leapfrogged. In practice, they'd most likely take away a qualifying spot from one of the lower seeded leagues and offer that to the EL winner. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the idea, but your mention of the League Cup winners going into the PL is a nonsense and in no way parallel to the proposal.
Not defending either format, just pointing out the fallacies of an argument that claims Utd would definitely have won one less had the competition retained the old format. As you say, there's no way to guarantee we would have won it, but then there's no way to know or guarantee that if the old 'champions only' format had been kept we wouldn't be the ones with five European Cups right now. Like I said to Bluff, just pointing out the fallacies of your original argument. My point exactly. Domestic cup success is automatically rewarded with European qualification. No domestic cup success is rewarded with qualification to a higher domestic competition, so there is no way lower level European success should be rewarded with qualification to a higher European competition. Particularly as it would automatically prohibit them from defending their title and, as you say, would prevent the champion of a lower league from competing in the Champions League.
Ok, well I take that point. However, I think the issue can become clouded when you consider that those who finish 3rd in their CL group drop into the EL. Since that happens, there is clearly a degree of fluidity between the competitions. Dividing it into domestic/European as you have above doesn't take into account the formats. As we have agreed, a League Cup winner going into a higher domestic league would be ludicrous; a cup competition shouldn't impact upon a league competition (play-offs being a grey area in this respect.) The transition would be cup-to-cup, much like the league-to-league transition that occurs for league winners every season. So you could think of the EL-CL transition in the same way as the Championship-PL transition (and so on.) The winner of the 'second tier' gets promoted to the highest tier. Since both the EL and CL are both European competitions as well as cup competitions (which are already connected by the relegation of 3rd-placed CL group teams) it's not such a crazy idea.
The original format was best, champions only in champs league, 2nd and third in europa, yes i know they had different names and cup winners in cup winners. All made sense, only alternative should be a euro league and thats it. I also think our places should be 1st champs league full, 2nd cl quals Fa cup winners cl full and league cup wins into cl quals. But it gets ripped apart but at leats all would have won something to be there.
Such a club would have surely used its dominance based on skill and achievement to win the most European trophies by any team in its country, oh wait! In all seriousness not really bothered either way, Its always nice winning a cup and maybe they deserve a CL spot considering they face CL opposition, but clubs will always target CL qualification, i don't believe winning the Europa league is a target for any big club.
