2014: Vettel at Ferrari?

Vettel won't leave Red-Bull while they keep serving him up championship winning cars.

 

Kind of getting bored of the media constantly reporting on this when clearly nothing concrete has been signed

 

Right Forza this is what I got:

0:01-0:06// His head is tilted to one side meaning he is relaxed and open to Legard, he is also slouching slightly so a relaxed posture.

0:07// He gives a small swallow right after Legard: "Certainly for 2014." which is a sign of anxiety and worry.

0:11-0:13// Starts to sit up suddenly meaning he is more focused on the subject matter, probably in response to what he said in the past. He then licks his lip AND! sucks them both in for a split second during, Legard: "You said you'll never have two number 1's around a table." That kind of facial sign is thought to be a sign of being uncertain of something, or! as I read about it, bad news. It can also mean lying and suppressed speech on the matter...

0:17-0:18// Stefano: "I will never say never in life." During this he starts to look down on Legard with his head and not exposing his neck, which can mean a defensive stance on the subject and he is being cautious around Legard getting something out of him maybe.

0:22-0:29// He quickly squints his right eye and tilts his head to the right with regards to "maturity and approach" so he is thinking and evaluating to himself in detail of the actual problem, is questioning it himself and slightly doubts it by the looks of it. He also doesn't name the driver who has to adjust, Alonso, Seb or both? A few forceful head movements to put his point across are going through this time and "relationship" subject seems to be the biggest problem between Seb and Alonso with Stefano's head movement. He also seems to be breaking eye contact a lot during 0:25-0:29 so he is scared of being found out about something of the relationship of Seb and Alonso by the looks of it.

0:32// He quickly adjusts his words. (This is Stefano dropping the ball in my opinion.) He is talking about relationships and maturity between both Seb and Alonso. Stefano: "As you said** this is not an urgent problem to address." **I didn't hear Legard asking that kind of question? if it was a problem to be fixed etc.., so who is Stefano talking to? LDM, Alonso, Fry in a past conversation and is forgetting where he is for a split second? Or past experience with journalists and that Legard could spin that into something else? But he seemed intent to adjusting his words and a rare hand move by him to properly explain himself.

The first time he said it though almost sounded like (For me): "With the time frame we have (1-2 years), the relationship can improve before then and it's nothing urgent yet to sort out etc..." So (For me) it sounds like he believes it will sort itself out before "then" and he pretty much dropped the ball right there and then in my opinion.

0:34-0:40 avoiding eye contact after the slip up until Sebastian's name is mentioned and starts to calm down eye movement wise anyway.


Done for a while now, might do a few more after a couple of hours.

 

We know that Horner has extended his contract until 2017 and Newey has probably done the same, but Vettel has not done so going by that article. Marko says Red Bull have the fundamentals that should ensure Vettel remains comfortable there, but....

Rory Byrne, the real master of innovation, the man who outperformed Newey is now "working full steam" on Ferrari's 2014 car. I can't help but think Ferrari have realised they can't get Newey and so have had Byrne skip F138 development and instead work on the 2014 car, in an attempt to lure Vettel away from Red Bull and Newey. It sounds like a good plan anyway.

 

Indeed in Seb's place it seems like he is seeing which team is best in 2014 and jumps or stays come 2015. But that could be for Mercedes as well who are now investing heavily.

2012 wasn't the best show of IRBR and Newey in my opinion, took them almost half a season to sort the rear out, reliability is still questionable, they have the 3rd best engine at the moment and the other teams have almost caught up now aero wise. When you take into consideration of Ferrari being bulletproof, team consistency just the same, better engine and that was with an aero tunnel that didn't work properly so you must wonder how good the car would be when the tunnel worked "100%". Can't wait to see Seb drive past a car without hitting the limiter 90% of the time when stuck behind another car. You only have to look at Brazil, Abu Dhabi on how rubbish the RB8 was on the straights. If it wasn't a good qualifying car Seb wouldn't be there anymore I reckon since that's their only major strength.

Without aero RBR would be slightly ahead of Lotus "car wise", the dynasty of IRBR is ending, we just don't know when or how long they stay up there for...

For me the future WDC's/WCC's 2014 onwards are against Ferrari and Mercedes for the next couple of years (2014-2016). McLaren will focus on becoming a works team and fade away for a bit and IRBR will probably shout at Renault/Infiniti to pick up the pace against the big 2 while in a safe 3rd place.

 

In 2014? It's more likely that Vettel will join McLaren than Ferrari. I don't see why Alonso would want to leave Ferrari until the end of his deal.

I think Vettel will stay with Red Bull for many years, though.

 

Alonso said he is going to play out the remainder of his career in F1 at Ferrari.

 

From the BBC:

Ferrari's plan was said to have been for Vettel to join in 2014 - even though the German's Red Bull contract ran until the end of that season.

But sources close to Ferrari now say the Spaniard and the team renegotiated their agreement towards the end of last season and that one of Alonso's demands was that they not sign Vettel alongside him.


So I was correct in saying the relationship soured and that was the problem why we wont get an Alonso & Seb lineup.

 

Byrne's a great designer, but I don't agree that he outperformed Newey, it wasn't a level playing field back then, Bridgestone and the FIA made sure of that. I also think Newey was stifled by McLaren's setup.

Now it's looking less likely Vettel will join Ferrari I hope Hamilton replaces Webber. I don't think any team principles have the balls to pair two of the top drivers though.

 

Like I said in 2011, it wasn't a wise thing to do to get a driver outside of the youth program to cause trouble. Seb is being used to also promote their youth program so they always get the chance to sign up the best drivers because they can go; "Hay see our last youth talent? He became the next triple WDC and broke all the records" so they in the future get ahead of the more senior teams. And like I also said, if it isn't broke, don't fix it! Considering they just won 3 years on the trot, Hamilton or Alonso isn't really needed at that team if they keep winning everything.

Webber is only there until another young IRBR driver comes along, so far it isn't looking to bad at the moment for them if Webber wants to keep going of course, don't think the current 2 will get the seat but rather the next 2 IRBR talents, Da Costa in particular...

 

1) Bridgestone were not going to optimise tyres for backmarkers like Minardi, they wanted advice from a stronger team, same with Michelin's and Renault.
2) The FIA relations with certain teams were stronger, but in no way did that influence the mechanical workings of the team, that's just a huge accusation, with no actual proof.
Come on AG.

 

But Ferrari had access to tyres that other Bridgestone teams didn't. Eddie Jordan has claimed that they once got to use a Ferrari-specific set of tyres, which were 1-1.5s a lap faster.

 

They can only be *whatever seconds faster if they have a chassis above it to provide the performance.
Other teams lacked that. Thus Ferrari and the Bridgestones went hand in hand.
Also the story of special tyres. Where did this arise. And is their actual proof or rumours.

 

What has this got to do with my point? Ferrari were given much better tyres than McLaren, so it isn't really fair to use the results from back then to compare Byrne and Newey.

 

You made reference to it, what I am saying is, that other teams (opposing teams such as Renault, BAR, Sauber) had the chance to optimize their work with Michelin, as Ferrari did with Bridgestone, they didn't and they made tyres that caused cars to crash a lot, thus they lost the tyre war.
On your point with Byrne and Newey, I think if they both had Bridgestones, they you would be able to make a comparison. Which I am sure is the point you are putting across.

 

Hmm not sure about the reliability of that article. How could Benson get hold of such information before the Italian media? Also why wouldn't he want Vettel there when earlier in the season he was fine with it? The two may not have a great relationship right now but if Alonso thinks he'll be quicker than Vettel in the same car, why would a bad relationship with his teammate bother him? Anyone who causes problems inside the team will be dealt with, Luca won't let that **** happen under his roof.

I'm also wondering how Ferrari could give in to such a demand, when Benson has already said that either party could exercise the pre-contract? Oh and I'd also like to add that if Alonso wanted Vettel away from Ferrari why did Ferrari still go and sign a one year deal with Massa? If Ferrari had known Vettel wasn't going to come in 2014 surely they would have signed Hulkenburg for 2 or 3 years, or promoted Perez. It doesn't make sense to keep Massa unless he's a seat warmer, and I find it hard to believe Alonso's relationship with Vettel only became a problem from mid-October onwards.

Your analysis of Domenicali's interview implies that while relationship problems exist, Vettel becoming Alonso's teammate is not something that has been ruled out - whereas Benson claims it was ruled out last year. I'm far more inclined to trust you than Benson's sources. Domenicali also said in the interview that their relationship was not an urgent to address and that champions mature.




By the way AG when both were in F1 it was Byrne cars that won more races, more constructors and drivers championships. Bridgestone sometimes helped Ferrari, other times they were beaten in the tyre war. Byrne didn't need the FIA to beat Newey, although it did help.

 

*I don't know if that's a compliment or an insult but I get what you mean

To be honest there are lots of deals going around in F1, so these "close sources" these people like to bring up now and again is just used to make any article more believable.

It's like me saying my "close sources" to the BBC say Benson isn't actually here let alone human, he is just part of a collective consensus of F1 fans imaginations of how to be a massive troll.


*2 I agree this is why I don't believe this "One rooster" comment a few months back, if anything it suggests both the drivers will be the chickens and Stefano/Luca are the "rooster".

*3 I think Ferrari signed Massa after Japan didn't he? That was the point when Seb also cut the lead down to Alonso so it was likely it wasn't because of Seb not going because he didn't want to, but that it looked like at the time RBR fulfilled their contract with Seb for the season (Get him into another WDC shot). Right after Japan it seemed to be the case that Seb "wasn't able" to break the clause anymore even if he wanted to, and that they finally sorted the car out etc... So in a nasty way, from a "human perspective" Seb is only staying there until a better team comes along and that could be either Ferrari, Mercedes, maybe McLaren even. It's probably very true that Ferrari get first refusal from Seb with Mercedes 2nd, McLaren 3rd, IRBR 4th. Seb doesn't have to do anything except say no to all of them in the end and put the pressure on IRBR to stay ahead of the game if they want to keep him.

*4 Indeed that was Stefano really dropping the ball in my opinion since Legard never asked that question anyway. Ferrari and Mercedes in particular are pushing hard to beat IRBR more so than Seb in my opinion. They know if they can build a better car than Newey, and with more powerful engines as an extra, Seb will leave quickly enough to either one. I said last season that RBR are desperate to keep Seb from 2016-2018 because Seb will be peaking at that point in time 2014-2020 and it would be wise to have him with you than against you. I see Seb more of a senior category "professional" rather than a young raw rookie talent "professional" like Lewis, Webber, Grosjean, Kimi, Kamui and more on the lines of Alonso, Button, Schumacher who should have their best years of talent when they peak 27-33.

 

So basically, the only way I can see Vettel moving is if Red Bull suddenly become extremely crap.

 

Nope, just until a better team comes along, and some of them arn't that far off...

 

Interview with Dietrich Mateschitz. I've only included a few questions from the interview:

The headline quotes Mateschitz as saying Vettel is only contracted for two more years (2013 and 2014), which means unlike Horner and Newey, Vettel still hasn't signed a new contract. I can't find the bit where he says that in the interview but I only translated a small part of it so I might have missed something.


Mateschitz also says Vettel being there in 2014 was never in question but here's the thing....

Why is Mateschitz lying?