Pardew has to go...

Couldn't really tell as I was at the other end and the way the ball moves looks a bit funny from a mile away lol. We did seem to have most of the possession second half and were piling on the pressure and playing really well which fills me with confidence looking forwards. I think there are many positives to take from the game.

 

Surely even you can see Wenger has taken Arsenal backwards (massively) over the past six years?

 

Anyhow, I'm turning in for the night now, cheers for the debate fella's

 

No, I see a team that has qualified for the Champions League thirteen years on the bounce.

I would happily endure that kind of 'backward' situation.



You couldn't make it up!

 

An outstanding achievement, can't argue that. And because of that he deserved time (which he's had) to sort out the defence/keeper in order to once again have them challenging for the title. He hasn't sorted that and they've gone from Prem Champions/Challengers to settling for fourth, they've gone backwards over a substantial period of time.

 

You can only blame pardew to a certain extent. He identified close season that he wanted a goal scoring defender signed. That's the boards fault, not pardew's. our set pieces are woefull but pardew obviously knows this hence his transfer targets. If Ashley won't sanction any money to be spent, pardew has to work with what he's got. What would another manager do differently? Maybe complacency has kicked in, certain players need a kick up the arse yes, but sackin the manager, no not for me like.

 

More than happy with Pardew, thought it was a good performance overall. As for Ben Arfa coming off, that is what management is all about. Personally I would be furious if they had risked him being injured long term for the sake of the one game. To be honest Jig you're showing real naivety there. They know his current fitness levels way better than we do and it was the correct decision.

Really the players have to have a look at themselves tonight. Colo was shocking for that 2nd goal. That is not about how a manager organises his set pieces at all. That is an individual error pure and simple. The first goal is pure luck of course.

My only criticism is despite some life from him late on, Pardew has to take Jonas out and we need a replacement there. I can understand the reluctance to rely on Marveaux though, he has cut a hugely frustrating figure since he got here. No consistency to his game. Shola did well when he came on too. We played some good stuff tonight and Anita looks like he is really coming to life. Obviously we need to strengthen a little in January but we are definitely well on the road to recovery. We were average first half, Fulham were the better side and deserved their lead. The other side is allowed to play well though! We deserved a point from the game on our 2nd half showing but to be quite honest we lacked a cutting edge when it mattered.

Again I will preach patience and half a season is undoubtedly knee jerk to me. We are not doing as well this season but you have to take a longer view if you want real stability and progress. I just cannot fathom how you cannot learn from our previous mistakes or look around and see what stability brings over 5 years plus. Its astoundingly obvious to me. But as always each to their own and you view football very differently to me, with the more modern short term view taken. You see half a season as a really long time in the life of a manager, I see it as an incredibly short period of time.

Martinez would not be interested either, so we need to stop mentioning his name. Di Matteo/Pardew? I can't see what we gain there to be honest. As for Allardyce I most definetly wanted him sacked. They are very different situations. Our football prior to the last two weeks hasn't been great but I do not believe Pardew sets out to go direct every week. Last season and the last couple of weeks show that is not the case at all. Allardyce does. There is a certain ethos attached to the club and Allardyce was a bad fit. Even the great Sir Bobby could see that with his "he needs to play more carpet football to get them onside".

 

So you'd still sack him then?



Honestly, do you even try to follow football events?

Arsenal have had to finance the Emirates Stadium so financially have been unable to compete with Chelsea, Manchester United, Manchester City and even Liverpool in recent years. Arsene Wenger has done a superb job.

It's honestly clueless people like your good self who keep me entertained on here!

I'm not trying to wind you up, but this stuff you're coming out with is priceless!

 

Crazy talk. Yes they are not challenging for the league but they are very consistent. They qualify for the CL every season, I'd love that kind of stabilising failure! Whichever way you look at it, time breeds consistency and continual progress. It allows managers to take a longer view of the club. Ferguson, Moyes, Pulis, Wenger have all been given extended periods. They are the most consistent clubs. 3 of those don't have the finance to really push on for titles etc but they progressing enough to maintain consistent league finishes

 

get him packed and tell him to **** off!!! Hughton was the man we should have kept and we all knew that!!
English managers from the south in the game our morons and always have and will be.
we need someone with some tactical awareness to keep us up.

No goals from set pieces says it all
hiss subs make me think he's doing it on purpose.

 

funny that, because's that's how I feel about you. I didn't actually say I'd sack Wenger, but I'd certainly be asking questions. He's lucky he has a board that are more interested in making money than they are challenging for trophies.

He's had god knows how many years to replace Vieira & Campbell, he simply hasn't done that and they've gone backwards. Of course we'd take champions league qualifying year in, year out, but just to make you aware (as I'm not sure you are) Arsenal are a bigger club than us, a club that needs to be challenging for trophies.

Wenger also has a pot of money that he refuses to spend year after year, it's all well and good bringing through the young players (something I greatly admire) but they need to be complimented by experienced professionals. Refusing to spend this money is just plain stubbornness on his behalf and it's currently holding the club back.

If Wenger took over at Man Utd, didn't win a trophy for seven years but qualified for the Champions League every season, would he keep his job? No is the answer, to use Pouch's expression you and him have both fallen in to the "modern day fan" category regarding Wenger as you clearly think the champions league is the be all and end all of football. It's not, winning trophies matter more than champions league qualification.

 

You can't really compare Man U and Arsenal, this is the exact mistake their fans are making. They are operating on very different budgets. Therefore their expectations have to be different. They simply cannot expect to compete with Man U, Chelsea and Man C. It is understandable they wish to challenge for the league every year. It is not a realistic goal for Arsenal. Their challenge is to qualify for the CL year on year until they pay off the debts attributed with paying off their magnificent stadium. They are achieving their goals. The big difference (whatever Arsenal say publically), is Man U generate enormous amounts of money to soend and Man C/ Chelsea have benefactors who are willing to spend blind. Arsenal have neither source of income.

 

We have no evidence of that, just talk. What we do know is they have huge debts attributed to their stadium. The board and Wenger can say "the money is there" all they like, the reality is clearly different. Very similar to our own owners approach who also say the money is there and then don't really spend much. Talk is cheap basically.

 

The Arsenal board are fully aware of how lucky they are to have a manager as good as Arsene Wenger - they have needed to tighten their belts in recent years to pay for a mega-expensive stadium but have managed to stay competitive during that whole time. Turning a huge profit, winning matches, qualifying for the Champions League and still managing to put 60,000 bums on seats every home game.

Are Arsenal a 'bigger club' than Newcastle United? Their recent success would suggest they are far more successful, but bigger? Depends on how you define it. Every major football club needs to be challenging for trophies, it's certainly not a given for Arsenal, but their level of success (which Wenger is hugely responsible for) seems obvious considering their prestigious history.

You say Wenger has a huge pot of money that he refuses to spend? If you take the time to look at his transfer dealings, you'll see that over the years he has spent a fair old wedge - the incoming balance is far higher but that's because he is an astute manager who signs players and often turns them into stars (Henry, Adebayor, Walcott or Oxlade-Chamberlain) which I consider to be a highly acclaimed skill.

I don't consider Champions League qualification as anything other than an impressive achievment - especially in the context of Arsenal who have continued to do well despite "going backwards" under Arsene Wenger, according to your good self.

I don't actually know who "Pouch" is but it sounds to me like they have a more measured opinion of modern football than you.

Keep that blue flag flying high.

 

How is going from doing the double (twice) and getting to a champions league final (and nearly winning) to struggling to finish 4th every year anything other than going backwards?

 

It depends on the budget you have. If you've gone from having a league winning budget, to having to sell to buy, your expectations alter. They finished 3rd last year. They have maintained a consistent level of points for the last 8 seasons (the advent of the new stadium and power struggle between Usmanov and Kronke) If Usmanov finally gives up the ghost (he has lost as Kronke owns 62%) I'm sure you'd see the budget released, Wenger would buy and they'd be challenging again.

 

Also need to look at Wenger's transfer dealings - Chamakh, Mertersacker, Santos, Gervinho, Squillaci plus more. Now I know every manager makes dodgy signings, but all of those are within the last two years.

Plus he has money, he's come out less than two weeks ago and said "buying players isn't the answer", his stubbornness is the main thing holding the club back IMO.

 

Talk is cheap as I said earlier, bottom line is they make a profit every transfer window. This only started happening when they moved stadium and this power struggle started. I think he is just stopping it spilling from boardroom to fans/dressing room. I don't believe in those kind of coincidences!

And if he was being stubborn do you really think Usmanov or Kronke would allow him to decide and have waited 8 years? They're two of the richest men in the world. I think there is a lot more at play than what is said publicly.

 

This.

 

And this!

Saves me typing... I would deliver rep but i'm in rep jail!!!