Well I don't respect meaningless concepts like 'the state' or 'the flag', I respect real actions like the way the state allows us free speech, so that I can say things like I have just said, and I don't respect the current government's policy of locking someone up for making distasteful jokes on facebook, for example. These seem mutually exclusive to me, but both of them are things the state stands for, so what kind of state is this? If that contravenes your principle that people should swear allegiance to the state (what nonsense) then I guess I'd better pack my bags. Or do you hold immigrants up to a higher standard than natives?
So we can all rally round your concept ? You seem a bit of a joke to be honest , the only thing all classes have is their Country and flag , everyone has that , if you pro or anti royalist that's five but always at timed of trouble up majority look to them as a symbolic figure ,
Well, yes if you like you can rally around a concept of skepticism, and more people should do so. Unquestioningly following the flag is what happened in Nazi Germany or South Africa under Apartheid or countless other oppressive nationalist regimes. Did the Jews or Bantus feel like they had their country and flag?
Why does a flag have to be negative , read your history , unquestionably following a flag led to freedom in South Africa as well , they rallied round theirs . What do you really want ? What is your objective ?
The Jews is a completely different argument as their Countries had already disappeared , hence the creation of Israel . And Bantu , your point other than mentioning a language ?
If you think that swearing allegiance to your country is nonsense then Wales is the best place for you boyo - you have already packed your bags as far as i am concerned ! Seriously though, in the vast majority of countries around the world the citizens of a country DO swear allegiance to the state and it starts at school. This has nothing to do with extremist examples from history such as Nazism - it is plainly being proud of your country and being part of your country. Natives should of course have allegiance to their country as well as immigrants - however you would think that a native would be content & proud enough of their country of birth for this to be an automatic thing. If you think this isnt a decent country to live in then you havnt had to spend time in some of the places that i have.
Ha ha - Thornhill is OK actually - you should see the new Eastpoint Centre that they have built there for the natives !!
I remember in 'that' incident with England playing Spain in Madrid all those years ago; Ferdinand wasn't subjected to 'monkey' chants, while SWP and Cole were. Possibly this was as many of the Spanish players and many fans were actually darker than Rio.
I have to say I have gained a massive amount of respect for gomarchingin since reading this thread. You are owning it. Not trying to patronise you but you do get a lot of flack. I think you've caught a few people off guard here.
At present I am married to a very dark girl from Mauritius and previously to another who sadly died from leukemia. I have been the recipient of abuse because of my family and seen how it has effect on family life. We do not need more unions but a union and authority that actually does what it should considering it's own publicly stated aims on the subject. We are all supposedly born equal. We stand and fall together and their blood is as good as mine.
Didn't say that at all, it's amongst the best countries to live in the world I'm sure, despite the last few years of austerity and all that jazz (and the aforementioned war on civil rights of course). I just think it's foolish to pledge yourself to something unconditionally and the best check on the state's power is for people to be constantly suspicious of its motives! I've never understood patriotism really. Strikes me as odd to think that your country is the best purely because you happen to have been born there.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/oct/21/south-yorkshire-police-battle-miners?INTCMP=SRCH http://www.amazon.co.uk/Liberal-Fascism-History-Mussolini-Politics/dp/0141039507 You need to get out more and stop trying to be clever lad . Its appears the only politics you know is the 6 o'clock news .
Who says Patriotism is saying your Country is better than another ? I think you should mean Nationalism .
Yep, pledging your allegiance to a piece of land defined by arbitrary lines on a map seems a little silly when you really stop and think about it. I love this planet, but I have no strong feelings either way about this country.
Ok I understand what you are saying, but is that not the problem that sat in their detatched house in the country where they drive through multicultural places every other week and believe they fully understand how it is for everyone else? So I can understand why you would understand how other people could form this view, but not sure how it makes sense to defend their right to have that view, without agreeing yourself?
