Those places you've listed are not examples of multiculturalism failing. They're examples of places that have never embraced multiculturalism.
I think he means there are multiple cultures living in parallel. That's where I kind of lose track of the point he's trying to make though. Respecting each other, as a default position, is all well and good, but the flag and the crown? Get a life!
Yeah there are, and they're basically segregated. Partially because there are a lot of white people who don't like the idea of foreigners moving into their town, and partially because a lot of those foreigners have very conservative beliefs and want to live in this country while refusing to accept its culture (such as that Pakistani couple who murdered their own daughter for "becoming westernized" and talking to boys). It doesn't make sense to me when people claim multiculturalism doesn't work. That bitch Angela Merkel said something along those lines. London is a perfect example of how multiculturalism is a wonderful thing when people give it a chance. I love the idea of this country opening its arms to people from all over the world, and I hate it when those people don't feel comfortable integrating into our society. Also yeah, respecting the flag and the crown? What does that even mean?
There is nothing wrong with this perspective on the discussion. A "whites" only anything would indeed be quite rightly regarded as, well, just how it sounds - like some kind of eighteenth century gentlemen's club! Therefore, in a cosmopolitan and diverse society which we both aspire to and, in many places, already exists, a "blacks" only anything could quite easily be regarded in the same light. This is a fair comment.
The thing with Germany is that you could move there tomorrow and if you can speak German people will consider you 'German'. That's certainly not the case here, just look at people who want to be considered English like Kevin Pietersen springs to mind, who despite having an English mother, having lived here a long time, an English wife and child, and representing England at his chosen sport of course, there are always a lot of people reminding him that he's not really English. I'm sure a lot of immigrants want to assimilate themselves into society but find it difficult, although what you say about conservative beliefs is definitely a factor. I wonder how many people who were born and bred in this country get asked where they're from, or told they're not really British? I bet most non-whites have experienced it at least once. I'll say it again, who is proposing a blacks only organisation?
As I said before, there could be no reason for a whites only union other than for ignorant bigotry and xenophobia. There are better reasons for minorities to unionize, even though it's still probably a silly idea. This proposed union would presumably be formed on the basis that this "cosmopolitan and diverse society" isn't cosmopolitan or diverse enough.
Actually I think that happens a lot in Germany too. It's certainly a massive problem in France and Switzerland.
I expect so, my point about Germany was really just trying to put Merkel's ideas about multiculturalism into a little, er, cultural perspective. That last bit was just rambling!
In a way we're very lucky to have such a moderate bunch of people living here. Of course, it means our political parties all spew the same bullshit and never get anything done, but it's nice to have so few extremists. All those European countries which are seen as being more liberal than ours also seem to have more vocal right-wing nutjobs than we do.
The Chairman of The Black Lawyers Society Peter Herbert says the wheels are already in motion for a 'black' players only union, he wont reveal the names of the players involved but gave a hint that Rio Ferdinand is one of them. Another player who opted not to wear the T-shirt was Manchester United defender Rio Ferdinand - but Herbert refused to name any players involved. "They have not come forward lightly," he said. "We are very aware it is not an easy task for anybody. "At the moment we cannot say names but I think you will be well aware that [Ferdinand] is a person [who] has taken a stance." http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20048531 The Ferdinand brothers issued a joint statement in which they said they would take part in future discussions on racism within football. "In the coming months there will be ongoing discussions, we are sure, on finding a way forward. We intend to participate in these discussions, along with numerous other current and ex-professionals of all races, from the grassroots upwards, across the football community as a whole". Why everybody is kissing Rio's backside is debatable considering he was found guilty of the same FA charge as Suarez &Terry, but it seems reasonably clear to believe that he is going to take a front seat in any future black players union.
In the title of the proposed "black players union". I could be wrong but i can't recall seeing anything said by Rio etc that the proposed union will include Asian or any other minorities.
. What other institutions ? You seem to forget or not well travelled enough to know every first World Country rally's around the basic fabric of their society , France their constitution and their flag , The States the same , I ask again what central pillars of our society should unite and embrace us all ?
With the greatest respect this is not about setting up a blacks only golf club or drinking den so to liken it to a gentle men's club is trivialising the issue. Is there a requirement for a black players union? Yes, if the black players feel there is a serious discrimination issue and their rights are not being taken seriously by the existing mixed race bodies. But we don't need a whites only union? That is a non-argument. You can't say well we don't need one so you don't! If there were an issue with whites being discriminated against then there would be a requirement for one, but in our society it's not an issue. This is the ultimate head in the sand perspective. So is it a fair comment? No not really. It's a white persons view trying to rationalise that their view and experience of the situation is that it is a non-issue. Well when I see them for 90 minutes a week there isn't a problem - this isn't a bout 90 minutes this is the fact that people live and breath it 24/7 if they feel there is a big enough problem to require talking about their own union to protect their rights, because the issue is not being taken seriously, then that should be good enough for us all.
You are correct gomarchin - in the majority of countries people look up to the state and the flag. We do here too, especially older people, but there is a certain stream of society these days which seems to trivialise these values. There have been moves in recent times for immigrants to undertake citizenship lessons and swear allegiance to the state - this is important to me as its not the colour of the skin that counts its what goes inside the head. I have no objection to immigrants, so long as there are not that many that they swamp us, but i do expect them to sing from the same hymn book and pull for this country and not fight against it. A black footballers union is a certain retrograde step for this country in my opinion. I am suspicious of anything that Mr Rio Ferdinand comes up with - i am not sure that he a good example for social integration and yet given his position he should be.
Of course he is. The man has an ego twice the size of Manchester. This is all about Rio, as is everything in his world. I hope other players, black and white, can see through him, but I worry plenty will be taken in.
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. My gentlemen's club analogy was simply supposed to demonstrate the very height of blinkered xenophobic thinking. Now I'm not suggesting that racism isn't an issue, indeed I've expressed some very strong opinions on this forum regarding the abject failure of those that run football to deal with it effectively. What I was trying to point out here is that for the vast majority, race is simply not a factor any more. Someone's skin colour or heritage is a non-issue, purely because we have become so culturally diverse. Therefore, to some, the founding of any organisation that is for blacks only could seem contentious. It wasn't my opinion but I was defending someone else's right to have it!
So because they haven't made it explicitly clear either way you assume they're excluding people? This is ostensibly a saints forum but you're posting on it, see what I'm getting at?
