A Step in the Wrong Direction?

Chris kamara Summed it perfectly on Sunday. He said these black players don't know there born. In comparison too 20 years ago when racist abuse was rife nowerdays it's a few idiots here an there.

 

I don't think I can ever understand the purpose of the "ban", if not to make the player responsible learn not to re-offend... And none of the players who have been charged have, so the "kick racism out of football" programme and FA judgement seems to have been as effective as it should be... Unless it's actually a "kick someone out of football entirely for one indiscretion" programme, in which case they've failed entirely, but which would also be massively at odds (and in a very unfair way) with the rules of society. So what is the actual goal, if not to kick racism out of football? What exactly is better than seeing someone using racist terms being rightly banned then coming back and learning from the mistake? Who else will the idiots who shout racist crap in the stands listen to or take lead from? I think fans should be more bullish about tackling the minority, but that's a different issue from what is before us.

Subjectively anyone can shout out any number of matches and any amount of pounds to fine a player, but it becomes a campaign separate from kicking racism out of football, because it's not taking into account the aim and focusing on merely hurting the player, rather than re-educating them and promoting the game of football as a good thing. If 4 game bans work, why should it be more?

From what I understand, given the rate of arrest and investigation into incidents, it's racial abuse is not such a prevalent problem in this country beyond a minority. Xenophobia barely gets mentioned in the same breath, but that is much more frequent and seemingly accepted by the authorities... So should we just have all players split into their component characteristics, black, Dutch, white, English, blue (cos it's ****ing freezing), Scot, brown, French etc? No, that's as ridiculous as the original suggestion of this black player only club. They should be all in it together making the game better, not separating into factions. The FA must change, but not simply be (and I'm sorry for the irony of the word) blackmailed into giving the sentences a few people want.

The FA approved kick racism out of football programme has several senior black players on board instigating a process of re-education that is benefiting the game, and I don't think they'll support this action at all if it happens because it will counter-act their message.

 

Depressing that its even being talked about. At a time we should all be getting together and uniting against the evil of racism, to consider fragmentation is madness.

 

You're right, and those players 20 years ago didn't know they were born did they? I mean, in comparison, their forefathers could have been slaves.

Just because something is improving doesn't mean we should get complacent.

Ok, and if they regularly got abused on the pitch, or in football related matters, then some of them might think of starting a White Players Association, to represent their interests. As it happens, they don't so they won't.

JPF, if I killed someone in a drunken rage, and then after 2 days in a cell was sufficiently rehabilitated to never do it again - would you ok for me to be released?

There is an element of punishment and rehabilitation in the ban. Lance Armstrong probably won't dope again, but (imagining he was a bit younger) would you lift his ban because he has been rehabilitated.

That said, I only have two problems with Terry's sentence:

1) 11 months to find him guilty? They had the video of him mouthing '****ing black ****' from the start. Regardless of whether he was being racist, that language is not allowed on the field of play and so he could have been fined and banned straight away.

2) Consistency. Why give Suarez a longer ban?

In my mind, a BPA is being talked about to push the FA and other organisations into acting on the racism issue, and so actually will do its job, perhaps without even being set up. Maybe that's what they intended all along, if so it is a very clever press release. In fact, why else would a human rights lawyer randomly mention that he had held talks, if not to force the FA's hand.

 

I know your point, but I think it's unfair in this instance to use analogies at all to back them up. If I said that I was intending to start a "League of Whitemen", where only white players could play, manage, officiate and only white men could watch so as to avoid any chance of racism or sexism, then would you call that racism-free or would you call that ironically racist? See, any analogy of the situation is completely inappropriate to the discussion and adds unfair weight and implications. Killing isn't the same as making a remark about someone's skin. That's society and has been for sometime. One is a violent crime taking a life, the other is (an idiotic) but mere vocalization of disdain for social niceties, so unless you advocate putting them on parity legally, it's not relevant.

Consistency and the time-frame (conveniently holding the public trial after the WC final... as if we'd get there ) issues I agree with, absolutely. But that's not worthy of threatening the FA or otherwise. They removed Terry as England captain and banned him, which was good when looked at in isolation. Overall, the FA have been so relentlessly inconsistent on so many things from dangerous tackles, to managers talking about refs, to diving, to taking your bleeding top off in celebration, that the fact there's been a 4 game difference between Suarez and Terry looks quite small!

 

Also, I notice the "Kick it Out" campaign is funded by the league system (although the football league are struggling to find the cash now), and operates on around £450,000 grand a year. Why are none of the players who feel the campaign isn't as effective as it could be stumping up some of their mega-bucks to help fund it? Baring in mind the likes of Ferdinand (who was found guilty of being racist against white people... apparently) gets that in about a month...

No, they'd rather potentially shell out a fortune to get their union set-up and running? HQ, legal fees, website creating teams, admin costs... That's before this thing has even taken any bloody membership. It just seems so shallow, even as a media ploy.

 

I would imagine they're not putting up the money because they feel it's flawed too deeply to ever be repaired. I don't think players, black or not, should have to pay for people to stop abusing them anyway. The funding needs to be provided by the FA, or the Premier League if they genuinely want to stop racism.

You say that the time it took to punish Terry and the actual level of punishment is not enough to threaten the FA - Well what is? The whole thing shows how much of a joke the FA view it as. I think black players have a right to be offended by that. Yeah, maybe Terry has been 're-educated' (though most likely just educated to not be so blatant with his racism rather than actually shedding the racism altogether), but there has to be some kind of serious punishment to go along with it. I don't support banning him from football altogether but if Barton got 12 games for what was actually a fairly minor incident then Terry, at the time of the incident England captain and a role-model to kids, deserves at least the same. Ferdinand got 8 months for missing a drugs test - Not failing, just missing. Racist abuse is worse than that.

You also mention about players of various different groups starting their own organisations, and if they were suffering as much abuse as is regularly aimed at black players then I'd agree with it. The fact is they're not though, and nor is their quite the same amount of history with those other groups.

As I said in an earlier post though, and bigirimanarama brought up as well, this whole seems more like it's intended to force the FA into action rather than letting it slip under the rug like it has so many times before.

 

Will a black organisation be impartial, will it only speak out in support of black players, and issues of black players?
The very fact that it's going to represent blacks in football makes it impossible to class it as a unifying movement, I can see this spinning off in all directions, will the Asians insist on their own Representation, and don't forget, the article also mentions the lack of black managers in football, any club worth it's salt will choose the right man for the job, they're hardly going to consider skin colour or ethnicity, so how they will action that . (Besides, we all know the Scots have that one sewn up )

One or two have mentioned the length of time it has taken for the JT case to be resolved, I would have thought the reason for that would be to not jeopardise his criminal trial, anyone who feels justice wasn't done in his case may well be right, but he will be forever associated with all this furore, what a horrible way to be remembered.

 

This is hypocrisy at its very worse and I'm in no way surprised by the fact that self-important prick Rio Ferdinand is at the helm!

To everyone saying "black people are abused for skin colour, white people aren't - that's why there should be a black players union." 1) White people are, there is no stigma attached to it and therefore its not regarded as 'abuse' 2) Imagine if this action had been suggested and pushed by a group of white men, do you think Ferdinand would be vehemently supporting it then? Of course not!

People are saying the PFA aren't doing enough? Seriously? Name any other area of football that has been focussed on more?

1) Ticket costs - nothing
2) National team - nothing
3) Diving - nothing
4) Technology - nothing

Aside from fan violence/hooliganism, the only thing our FA have been good at, is reducing and removing racism from the game! How many people here have told a racist joke? How many know people who genuinely harbour racist opinions? How many of those who can laugh at racist jokes or who have racist opinions are racist at football matches? Next to none - why? 'Cause our FA have done more work than any FA in the world to remove it from our game.

Terry was given a 4 game ban and fined a quater of a million pounds, people said this is **** all...What? He used inflamatory language. Craig Bellamy used the exact same words a few days later (substitute black for dutch) and was shown on camera doing so, and yet no-one raised an eyebrow.

People need to get a ****ing grip. I've been racially abused, I've volunteered (at my own expense) in Africa. In fact, living in Belfast for four years I was regularly subjected to sectarian comments, sent my way with fair more vitriol and hatred than Terry's comments to Ferdinand. Do you know what I did? I got on with it. I'm in no-way racist, I'm in no way insensitive, but the level of idiocy in society at times is ****ing unbelievable!

 

Bold Well that makes no sense, because what they're apparently intent on doing will cost a fortune. Also, Kick it Out wasn't anything to do with the ban system or lengths of those awarded.

Italics Joey Barton's offence was extreme violent conduct, I don't know what society you are apart of that treats racism more seriously than that... The fact that a 4 game ban is more than the 3 game ban you could well get for crippling a player is definitely an indication of a serious attitude towards it. As for saying racist abuse is worse than potentially cheating (if any of players did this, I'd not argue against an 8 month ban or longer), that's again down to personal opinion and not backed up by legal precedent, so that's only the consequence of focused opinion rather than in the interest of fairness. The FA can't very well maintain their own standards of law and order which are separate and distinct from society's, yet they still found Terry guilty where a fair trial did not, thus they have shown how seriously they have taken racism.

Underlined Different groups in history have always abused others by using discrimination, and that doesn't just mean white on black or black on white, so are we going to have a Scottish Player Group looking after the interests of those that were once murdered and abused by the English in medieval times and possibly by a few drunken idiots today? WarmPouch contested, "how long are we going to let history dictate the policy of today", which I believe is a fair point. The other fact is, as JWAG has absolutely proved, racism exists apart from simply being aimed at black players, and xenophobia is not even thought of as abuse in the game. Comparatively, the issue of racism has been given very appropriate recognition indeed!

I think yourself and Big have argued the other side of the argument well, but as an emotive topic you've highlighted how very subjective the move is, rather than one based on any logical reasoning. Looking across the many sport forums that exist, we're the only ones who've even had a debate with the other side's point viewed, so kudos and rep when I'm out of jail

 

Every word of this!

 

FFS it's a bit on name calling anyway I wouldn't do it, however we can all sing you fat bastard etc and the fat people dont make to much noise.

These arseholes like Ferdinand should rise above it and realise racism was the slave trade and not name calling.

I'm ****ing sick of these people with their lttle violins for black people being called black, don't get me wrong if they were not getting jobs being sold for slavery I'd fight it all the way.

I have a high hairline these days and people call me names and I laugh it off.

 

The difference is that they're starting their own group which will give them more support and make a more serious effort to combating the issue. Yes, they're still paying for it but at least this way they'll be funding a group which better represents their own views. You're right that Kick It Out isn't really part of the problem, but I suppose they may feel that it this point it's just meaningless when the real problems aren't really being dealt with.

It wasn't 'extremely violent conduct' at all. It was two minor incidents that were blown way out of proportion by the media. There wasn't any real risk of injury. Certainly what he did was worthy of a ban, but not of the length he received. Maybe it is personal opinion that racist abuse is worse than potentially cheating but I would really be concerned by those who disagree. Ferdinand wasn't even given a second chance to take the test. He may well have been innocent, he may have been guilty. We don't know, but we know for a fact what Terry did, and to me the difference between the length of the two bans is ridiculous.

The difference is the conflict between races, particularly black and white, is much more recent, and discrimination against black people is not just history, it's unfortunately very much a part of the present, which is why it's such a big issue. In football there isn't as much of a problem with other races being abused. If there was then we'd be talking about that rather than this. Xenophobia is abuse as well and it is wrong, but it's also still more accepted in society than racism is. JWAG mentioned Bellamy calling Krul a 'dutch ****', and when I saw that I did think some action needed to be taken, but many disagreed. It's a shame and something that will no doubt be a bigger issue in the future.

Yeah you've argued your side well too. It's a complicated issue and there's probably no real 'right' answer. All I'm trying to do is convey what some of these players may be feeling. To sum it up, if it isn't just a ploy to get the FA to take more action (which I think it mostly is), then they probably feel that the existing groups can't or won't represent or support them anymore, and they want their own which will do that. It's not about equality because obviously limiting it to black players isn't equal, but it's about making sure someone will be there to support them should they need it.

Again though I really can't see this as anything more than a kick up the arse to get the existing organisations doing more.

 

Also there is war going on all over the world, people getting masacred, raped, murdered and children are starving to death so name calling to me is soooooo ****ing irrelavant

 

You do realise that they have not arsed themselves to detail exactly what the problem is to Clarke Carlisle, who heads up the PFA. I reckon that might have been a good starting point, you know actually try and work with people rather than against them. He says he has held discussions with the alleged ring leader, Jason Roberts and has moreorless indicated he is no further forward understanding their issues. What does that tell you?

The response when people point out how stupid this idea is (along with black music awards, black police association, black lawyers association - yep I'm saying they're all moronic ideas) "well white people don't suffer the hatred black people do". It simply is not a relevant point really. It should be stamped out immediately because it segregates one race from another. That is not acceptable.

The main issue is promoting unity and educating the next generation to be more balanced than the current one. There is not a lot you can do about people who hold racist views with regards to football. No amount of education is going to change them. A black footballers association will certainly make no difference. Look at how much progress has been made int he last 30 years. The only thing that can change this situation is time and education. For sure we need to educate authorities too like FIFA and UEFA and make them understand that they are not helping.

 

Looks like the conspicuous press leak has had its desired effect:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20054166

The Professional Footballers' Association has issued a six-point action plan to deal with racism.
Criticised for not doing enough to tackle the problem, the PFA says it is now time for tougher penalties.
Culprits could be sacked and ordered to attend awareness programmes.
The response comes after Reading striker Jason Roberts, a member of the PFA's management committee, expressed frustration that his recommendations had not been acted on.
The PFA's plan calls for:
Speeding up the process of dealing with reported racist abuse with close monitoring of any incidents
Consideration of stiffer penalties for racist abuse and to include an equality awareness programme for culprits and clubs involved
An English form of the "Rooney rule" - introduced by American football's National Football League in 2003 - to make sure qualified ethnic minority coaches are on interview lists for job vacancies
The proportion of black coaches and managers to be monitored and any inequality or progress highlighted
Racial abuse to be considered gross misconduct in player and coach contracts (and therefore potentially a sackable offence)
Not losing sight of other equality issues such as gender, sexual orientation, disability, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia and Asians in football
Some of the proposals would require the intervention of the Football Association or Premier League.

 

Patience is a virtue and the likes of Ferdinand and Roberts should hang their heads in shame. Going about things all the wrong way and actually hindering progress in this area.

 

I agree that segregation is wrong but that's what's being created here.

It is an organisation set up against racism. I'm a white footballer, I'm against against racism, can I join? No, because I'm white.

It shouldn't be 'black v white' it should be 'decency v racists'.

Might as well set up a black league at this rate, that's sure to put a stop to racism!