Nah just fed-up going round in circles looking back on who said what and when, I know what has been said or implied so no need to prove it to anyone who are 'blinded' with what they wish to believe. I was responding to your "£4m anyone" remark although I accept I could/should have left out the word 'imaginery' to avoid it flaring up again. I will be here debating things, just avoiding anything LUST related. Nobody can deny there are some on both sides of the fence taking taking it too far, selective memory issues and it all getting too personal
You seem rather certain about that LIW. What part of it was bullshit. Is it the amount, is it that you doubt any loan actually happened, is it the lender, what?
Yes but not in a straightforward manner. 1) I look at teams around us, what they can and can't afford to do, what their support is like and what home attendances are like. I look at their quality and who they have brought in and compare it to ourselves, I am sure we would all agree we are batting below our level of expectations when it comes to quality and expenditure on players. 2) The money via gates, player sales and merchandise is coming in, however it is not being spent on areas that we would like to see it being spent. Instead it is being drained away into Bates other interests, be it companies he has an interest in supplying LUFC with a service or loss making like the radio station. Reality we are okay, on paper no we don't look good but for one reason or another (probably tax related) Bates wants it to look that way. We are only 'poor' because Bates is bleeding us dry, if he stops bleeding us dry the money is there. Leeds United is making money, it is money that is making Bates richer as it is syphoned off right left and centre. While I detest Bates he is no fool when it comes to making money. The question is IF Leeds were in danger of folding would he ease back on how much he drains out or would he allow his cash egg to go under and be left with nothing, specially when you now throw into the equation that he can sell us for how much £10m - £20m- £50m+++ ???
why would a investor put in £4m before it signed the deal (btw according to lust these investors are no longer involved) You look at all the deals done, it was after we sold players( btw they knew snoddy was going 3 weeks befoe he was sold) there was no need to have £4m to pay for wages and transfers. And while i dont think everything is rosy down there, its complete bulshit to think the club had needed £4m to sold a cashflow crisis
Compass i believe have the catering contract at ER and because of past history, will have demanded a debenture so that they don't get treated as a normal creditor, in the event that the club goes into administration. I'm not too sure that the books are healthy at ER, and thats why Bates is finally looking to get out now. I believe he's milked it as far as he can, and now needs cash fast to keep his cashflows on track. I know there's many on here who think we have no chance of going bust again, but cashflow is killing the club and although the books look healthy, its only because he sells players otherwise we have been running at a loss for the past 4-seasons. Loss + Loss + Loss + Loss = a big cash deficit, hence player sales to keep the books looking healthy. Why issue cash debentures, sell season ticket sales for 2 seasons, why the new £2m mortgage. Bates has done serious harm behind the scenes. I wish the who T/O thing would end because this is turning out to be the most stupid season since Bates arrived. Miss-information, rumors, people who profess to be in the know, LUST embroiled in a war of words with fans. The only sensible thing to come out of it all, is that everyones saying they will come clean at the end of the deal. Well I can't wait for that to happen, but I'll say this; if the deal fails and we have Bates still at the helm, there will be a mass reduction in bums on seats at ER. We've had enough
Doc Do you think it made losses because bates was taking money out through management charges and such like.
Filed reports for last year state £3.5m profit with an operating profit of £1m Exactly - Bates wants it to look bad to avoid hefty tax bills and to avoid fans kicking up a stink which he has managed for several years and now the momentum of hate towards him is growing it is time to get out, nothing to do with money drying up. He is not going to kill the goose that is laying his golden eggs. Pure common sense tells you to look at us, our gate receipts, our size of squad, our quality or lack of in many cases and compare against those around us. http://www.leedsunited.com/page/PlayerProfileIndex/0,,10273,00.html Those are the wage earners, crippling I think not.
Compass Contract Services are a catering company - they are a massive organization - pretty sure they do all the catering for the BBC
They also own Levy Restaurants who just signed a 5 year catering deal with Leeds http://www.compass-group.co.uk/Levy-Restaurants-scores-winning-goal-with-Leeds-United-contract.htm
I believe they are also a footsie 100 company. Not sure where you found that these are the ones who have taken out the Debenture but nice find EDIT** found it http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/leeds-united-football-club
Sounds like you've sold 5 years worth of catering income - would explain a lot of the cross-wired messages people have been getting - would also explain the argument between Bates and prospective owners on what to use that £4M on as it would decrease the value of the club. Bates is not "loading you with debt - more like selling future income - very bad business for the long term, and if he does not sell to money people, you will be struggling by the end of the season
Standard practice by Compass http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/rose-bowl It is just an agreement that they get paid first to the value of the Debenture should things go tits up. Search companies house, Compass do it to most they deal with in the sporting arena.
LIW If you go back to the bogus £18m debt that was discovered at the 12th hour, when FSF said they would forget the debt as long as Bates stayed in charge. (KPMG should have been busted for that) Then look at the filed accounts ever since, you'll see millions being dripped out in consultants fees, legal fees, architects fees, redevelopment fees ......... There's been much more than £18m syphoned out of the business. Theres a bunch of offshore companies all linked to Leeds Utd and you just know that these shell companies are invoicing the club for work undertaken, then the invoice gets paid to the shell company. He's been running a scam for years, and Mark Taylor whos employed by the club as a director and club solicitor is also being paid for legal work as well as his salary. Why the hell do you think due diligence has taken months to complete and supposedly the original buyer walked away. If those original buyers are still at the table, its because they can see a way through the fog, and a way of getting rid of Bates. If the club has a major cashflow problem, it won't be able to get credit and will default on its payments. It would quickly be forced into administration. Bates is playing roulette with the buyers and measuring his cock against theirs. If he fails in his gamble he could lose the lot, because if forced into administration, it would fall under the term; 'pre-pack administration', because theres already an interested party. They would pick the club up much cheaper and in effect could do just what Bates did, and steal the club. maybe GFH know this and are biding their time to get the club on the cheap. Bates will not be allowed to stay on as it would be his 3rd time taking a club into administration
Doc I agree and thats why ive said its a goldmine. But its also why I dont think it will have cashflow problems, because you would just stop paying the shell companies
I worked with Compass for a few years, massive catering organisation based in Uxbridge. Debenture would probably have been on the catering spaces at ER to guarantee their contract. They could in effect then rent out catering spaces to other contractors. The GFH £2m is to protect their talks, as Bates can't talk to anyone else until he refunds the money to GFH. That is how it seems to be set up. Leeds are not a bankrupt club, far from it. If we were skint then the club would not be valued at £52m. Where we are skint is in the playing budget Bates makes available. He releases enough funds to field a team and run the Academy, yet still keep the club in the black. This increases the sale value and makes it look attractive as an investment....until new owners discover they need to spend some serious dough unlike the Bates way. Our frustration with Bates has been his refusal to take a risk and plough money into the squad, instead sticking to his formula of only committing a certain percentage of revenue to the squad. This means Leeds are a self-funded club which is a good thing, but it makes it harder to compete against those clubs with money.
