What happened to Innocent until proven guilty? - Jimmy Saville OT

I seem to remember there being a bandwagon about John Leslie being a rapist and he got proven innocent in a court of law. If he did it, then it's a big shame that he was never brought to justice 30 or 40 years ago, if he didn't then it people need to hang their heads in shame.

 

Aye mate but 30+ women didn't claim he did it though.

 

That many .

 

Apparently over 30 be come out against Saville

 

OK he is dead, but what if other people are still alive , who were part of his ring? should they not face justice. as in the isralies still looking for nazis, all these years later. for me all the beasts should face the wrath of a million mothers.

 

I wonder how far this will go. The thing is it doesn't just stop at Saville does it. David Bowie and his wife were rumoured to have taken the virginity of a 13 yr old girl. Jimmy Page started dating the same girl the following year at 14 yr old. John Peel the Radio One DJ allegedly had a penchant for young women between the ages of 13 and 16 that got him into trouble with American authorities. I dare say this list could get pretty long if they really want to delve deep into peoples backgrounds. I'm not suggesting that makes it ok what Saville is alleged to have done, he's a proper wrongun if true.

I just wonder how many others could face some awkward questions and how much of it is down to attitudes around the time towards a problem of this nature. Some of these people are legends to others but if the rumours are true then there were quite a few at it.

 

Never said they shouln't be, but Jimmy Saville in particular isn't alive to defend himself.

Lets say Saville did do it, and some of the women that have come forward were abused, and are entitled to some of his estate, is everyone just gonna wrap their arms around every crying girl who claims he abused her and say she has a right to thousands of pounds?

It's obvious that some of these women will try to claim he abused them to get some of his estate, it would be oh so easy, seeing as he'd been exposed as a rapist and he's not alive to defend himself.

 

Yeah innocent until proven guilty and all that, and you can often never know what people are actually about, but id like to think I would recognise a Lord of the Fiddlers if I ever had the misfortune to see one..and this guy, well.

 

People jump on a bandwagon, think everything will come out eventually, just a shame it never happened one way or another when he was alive and in the public eye.

 

Just a few points to add some colour to the discussion:

The world was a different place in the 60s and 70s. So many things which were regarded as "acceptable" then would absolutely blow your mind now. Racism wasn't just casual, it was in your face. 'Love Thy Neighbour' was a popular comedy on the telly where the black guy was constantly referred to as "Sambo" amongst other things. Every day a young girl (often as young as 16) had her jugs out on page 3 of the biggest selling newspaper. The environment was such that the odd grope or pinch would just have to be laughed off.

For example - A lady I used to work with in the early 80's was transferred to a new office. Her new office was full of middle aged blokes and the office walls were covered with photos of topless women. To her credit, 5 mins after arriving, she said "Right. I'm going off for a coffee. I'll be 30 minutes. When I return I expect all of these pictures to be off the wall. If they're not, I'm going straight to my union rep.". When she returned the pictures had all disappeared. Some neck for a girl in her early 20s! But such a scenario is unthinkable now.

The same lady was married a few years later. After the ceremony, the 'do' was at a local hotel. Who was staying at the hotel at the time? Sir Jimmy Savile. When she arrived back at reception Jim was there and made an enormous fuss of her. Trust me, if there was any inappropriate handling SHE would have pointed it out!!! He went out of his way and helped to make the day very special for her.

Its interesting that an awful lot of people are now coming forward and saying that the Jimmy Savile portrayed by all of the latest revelations isn't the Jimmy Savile they personally knew and loved.

I guess what I'm getting at is that nothing is black and white in this world, and its dangerous to apply present day attitudes to what was a completely different era. What is going on now amounts to a witch hunt. Also, if Savile did indeed abuse, chances are he was abused himself.

But yes, before anyone else makes the point - if anyone ever touched one of my kids I'd kill the bastard!!

 

These girls weren't topless 16 year old models, some were as young as 13 and placed in his trust, he abused that trust for his own sick, sexual gratification. Totally different.

You made a point about Saville probably also being abused. Why? It is totally irrelevant and a pathetic excuse if that's what you were digging at.

 

You miss my point. I'm illustrating what was deemed totally acceptable at the time. The Rolling Stones bassist was dating a 14 year old, Jerry Lee Lewis was married to a 13 year old. You think I'm condoning all of this, I'm not!

Au contraire it is totally relevent. To avoid these things happening generation after generation we must understand why they're happening in the first place. And where did I say it was an excuse? I already said how I'd react if it were my kids involved. But in a civilised society you have to admit that someone who does these things has serious problems of their own and is in need of help.

 

They wont get any of his estate, it doesnt work like that.

 

Great read, interesting comments.

 

This is totally irrelevant to the accusations that are being made. I suggest you look up the meaning of ****phile.

 

To be honest, having sex with a girl in her early teens wasn't deemed as the end of the world like it is now.

Not saying that makes it right, but in a case where he didn't slap a girl around and forced himself upon her, and she consented, back then, it wouldn't have been seen as a big deal. It was the 70's.

 

Nope - Many of the accusations being made also relate to victims over the age of 16. One of his alleged victims remained with him and was therefore subject to his continued abuse until her mid 20's. Then there's the whole side issue of female staff at the BBC being groped as a matter of course - its a whole can of worms which has been opened by this case.

 

Well said

 

The age of consent was changed to 16 in 1885. Some 80 years later, and the "culture" of the UK was still a bit sceptical of this law, to the point where many didn't really feel it WAS a law?? Sounds like utter horsey doodoos to me.

Saville's a filthy *****phile, who in PUBLIC (to the gentleman who said something about his conduct at a HOTEL!) hid his life behind charity work. There is nothing else to say on it. Innocent til proven guilty surely doesn't apply when over 100 credible witnesses come forward? Is Lance Armstrong guilty? You betcha, and and only 11 people were needed for that confirmation!! (off topic)

The inquisition for me starts with the BBC - who are undergoing severe scrutiny, led by one of their own Liz Kershaw who suffered sexual harassment at corporate level. Then the media - they can report on Kate Middleton's boobies, Fred & Doug's sting, or print stories led by phone tapping, but couldn't find the time to uncover this guys disgusting crimes?? Smacks of "in the know" to me, and they should be standing up to it. Louis Theroux has already come out and said that he was blocked at every turn when he decided he had enough reason to pry into Saville's life, and it took ITV approximately 72 hours to edit and broadcast a program about his behaviour...but only after he died. The final scrutiny is on the establishment itself and if I were at the top of the Met, I'd have a complete bloody task force set up to work out what the feckity feck is going on, before one of us on here is wondering why our 10 year old daughter has stopped doing well at school.

 

Oh well in that case then I guess your little story proves that this is nothing more than a witch hunt for a clearly innocent man - tally ho!