Last year we were questioned upand down the country for not playing on april 15th when a perfectly reasonable alternative existed and we were told to "move on" Yet an offical report and prime ministers apology later and suddenly all and sundry can pay tribute and say how shocking etc etc..... what i want to know is when it was so obviously a cover up and sham for 23 years... why on earth did the majority not simply state on its face its quite right last year not to play on the 15th and not critise? Is it not the case that once one media outlet has a go its carte blanche for all sorts to follow suit... and now that the pendulum swings theother way all sorts who don't have genuine feelings are paying lip service.. Just a question? I'm actually amazed that an mp from liverpool could after so long simply follow a petition to get 100k signatures and force a debate in which the conservative prime minister of the day then stood up and rather than act to type allowed an actual examination fot he documents to allow this truth we all knew to be pushed down the throats of liars.
People believe what they read, mito, and the official media line was always the police one, despite the evidence of the Taylor report. Even a cursory glance at the evidence showed obvious flaws in their reasoning and signs of a cover-up, although we could only guess at the extent thereof. The only difference is that this is now it's the official line. But one thing stands out (from what I've seen anyway), - the apologies and the hand-wringing seem to be coming mainly from those who are the current representatives of the guilty parties, and not the guilty ones themselves. Although it's a welcome start, apologies from the P.M., the Sun and the SYP etc will always ring hollow until the incumbents at the time make a sincere and heartfelt admission of their culpability. Don't hold your breath.
There's a number of points here. The April 15th only became an issue when it appeared to affect a London club. Let's be fair for a second. If Hillsborough had happened to another club, we would have been the same. "Yes it's sad but FFS it's over 20 years ago - move on". "There's no smoke without fire - you must have been responsible". However, it DID happen to our club and the fight for justice has been woven into the culture and history of our club and we have had to live with the derision of other fans because of it. The 'fight' for justice is not over and we will soon be derided again for wanting vengance rather than justice. The mere fact that the Independant Panel could present so many documents that clearly demonstrated that it was not our fault and that there was a cover-up is really down to the persisiance of the Families groups, the support of the club and the faith that we as fans had in the 'rightness' of their cause. It's been long and hard and I'd do it again in an instant. Very very rarely do campaigns like the 96's end up with so much vindication. It is indeed gobsmacking.
think a lot of people believed what they was told by those in authority/media etc, after all they are supposed to protect us, but i think a lot of people have known for a long time something wasn't right, myself included didn't realise the extent of the cover up, i knew it was bull but didn't realise the corruption went this deep, so its not an excuse, but i think a lot of people thought it was just a tragic accident that happened and are as gobsmacked as the rest of what actually happened or didn't happen as the case is.
Definitely. The thing that sticks in my throat a bit is the persistent reluctance to blame the government of the day. It's possible they weren't directly involved in the cover-up, but nothing will convince me that they didn't give tacit approval to it all.
I think it's partly down to this. In general people are usually very happy to respect the rights and wishes of other people, as long as they themselves aren't affected. I remember the 50th year Munich anniversary when we wore 1950s style shirts for the game. Everyone was happy to applaud that gesture, but I think they'd have all protested if Utd had insisted their club do the same. But also I think a lot of it is down to the fact that the majority of fans of other clubs simply don't understand what happened at Hillsborough. For them it is a simple case of poor crowd control causing Liverpool fans to be killed, which is sad, but something you move on from. They just don't get the scale and nature of the cover up, the extent to which the authorities still tried to cast some blame on the fans decades later, the fact ambulances were turned away from the ground, the fact that people could have been saved, the fact people were reported as dying at 3:15pm despite being seen alive an hour later, and the fact that for two decades people did not know how or why their families died. If you aren't aware of those facts then it's much easier to ask why Liverpool fans don't just "move on". But when you are aware of the facts, and the lack of closure over the whole event, then you realise why it hasn't been possible for anyone connected with the club and families to move on.
Serious question Lfc fans, now that the truth is out, if Lfc are drawn to play again on the 15th will the club continue to take the same stance of not playing? I ask this question as i seem to remember we played City in 2008, we still payed tribute and the City fans overall were very respectful also. Sorry meant to add 2008 being the 60th anniversary of Munich.
Thatcher was a control freak. There is categorically no way she didn't know about it. She hated Liverpool as a City, football generally and football supporters. All equal to a perfect opportunity. Or am I just cynical?
The issue of Liverpool playing on 15th of April only became an issue when an Arsenal fan made an issue out of it. What I understood is that UEFA have given Liverpool special dispensation to never ever play on the 15th of April. This has been the case since 1990. The FA were wrong to make Chelsea play at 6 p.m. on the sunday, but they showed compassion by ensuring Liverpool never play on the 15th.
The whole point about 80's politics was divide and conquer. In this country you don't have to have anything like 50% of the popular vote to have total power, and Thatcher knew that if, in general, she could keep the Home Counties sweet, where most votes are based, then she'd stay in power. The game, through Murdoch's media especially, was to tell those in the south that they were hard-working and good, and the rest of the counrty, especially the north, wales and scotland, were idle bums holding the rest back. When gobshites like Hatton appeared ready to play the pantomine villain to the daily Mail readers, not only was this confirmed but wingeing Scousers became the epitome of 'people who are not like us'. Social historians will look back in decades to come and think "How did they get away with that? Even the Northern cities were pitted against each other at the expense of forming any unity against this social and industrial devastation". Against this background you could put out stories that Scousers were all *****philes who would use the eyes of your children as marbles if you let them, never mind slur them with the story that an avoidable stadium disaster was all their own fault, then simply say"They're always the victims" if they complained. What's amazing,and EVERY citizen of this country should be grateful eventually to the fact that the families wouldn't give up, is that it was ever found out and, paradoxically, it lasted 23 years. A country becomes a tyranny when it selects a group or minority for demonisation and vilification for political ends. It may have been started by Thatcher, but 'New' Labour and Tony Blair, trying to rim the same voter base in the Home couties, did nothing to address the slur as it suited them too. No set of our citizens should become the whipping boys for the majority, but I see what's being said about immigrants and the Poles especially, and you know it could happen again. There WILL be a backlash by the Establishment after suitable pause. The Telegraph and Simon Heffer are just biding their time, Peter Hitchens won't even mention it, and obviously the Sun and NI daren't start the ball rolling - but they'll revert to type when someone else does. There will be stories about pathetic ex-senior cops being dragged out of retirement to face the courts, and hints and whispers that the report censored all the stuff about fans' behaviour on the day (without any evidence, of course). Defence lawyers will do their utmost to destroy any witnesses, as the did during the inquest. The judiciary, as evidenced by Judge Popplewell's outrageous intervention last year, will snipe from the sidelines and help drag out the procedures in the courts. The establishment will fight back, it's just biding its time until the shock has abated.
We don't refuse to play on the 15th April because of the cover up. We refuse to play on 15th April because 96 fans died in a tragedy and out of respect to the loved ones families! We will never play on that date
It should not in any shape or form be thrown in our faces. Liverpool refuse to play on the 15th as a mark of respect.
Why would it change? I would prefer clubs like Rangers, Bradford and the mancs to also take a permanent stance. Some things are just more important that the football. It's like remembrance Sunday. Wars like that are a lifetime away, but if people think "Well that was a long time ago" and stop remembering, history tends to repeat itself. It doesn't have any real impact on anything for a club to say "not today". So what if they have to play a day later, does it really make any difference when a match is played?
