Played a real captains role v Arsenal Played like a numpty at times v Morecambe Ran around last night as if he was trying to pick up 2 bookings and his passing and ball retention was poor too. I love the lad and his will to win is fantastic but I really do think his days could be numbered in that role. A couple of times, when passes went astray, or needless silly tackles went in, I looked at Mon and he was looking to the ground, shaking his head. Maybe not this window and maybe not January but next summer definitely imo. I think the quick passing game we want to play might just pass him by. I'd love to be wrong as I am a fan but I fear I wont be.
He gave the ball away 4 times in 90 minutes - 4 misplaced long passes - and they all went out for a throw in - 6 over 40 yard passes successful as well (out to McClean and Johnson) - covered every blade of grass as well Normally in agreement with you Cest but can't agree on this one - his yellow card was for, yes you guessed it, being Lee Cattermole - he missed the player who dived and the ref booked him - 30 seconds earlier a Morecambe player did exactly what Jame McClean did to get booked and we never even got a free-kick - I think you will be wrong mate - I think his game is developing massively. What he tried to do last night is pick the long ball to the wings - if it'd been Larsson who had done wat Cattermole did I reckon we'd be saying "Those 3 or 4 he gave away didn't really matter - the long passes he played were superb" but because it's Cattermole we pick the ones he gave away Against Arsenal he ran the midfield and looked an awesome player You say our quick passing game may pass him by - Bally, in the Reid days, was there onbly to break up play and give the ball to Hutchison, Cattermole now is a better footballer than Bally was then and often Kevin Ball was literally a just sit and wait to make the tackle
Didn't see last night so can't comment but my own personal opinions are that he blows hot and cold. When he's blowing hot he can turn and win games but equally prone to bad challenges and poor distribution which often lead to giving goals away. I was hoping that Meyler would come good and replace him this season or at least make Catts sit up and take notice, that might still happen, time will tell. He can be brilliant but also a liabilty, just depends which one turns up.
We do need a defensive midfielder and Catts fills that role he also shouts a lot and gets players going. His problem is he is slow and hot headed if somebody gets the better of him he often fouls them. His passing is Dodgey and he will probably never score goals. So he has some good points and bad, IMHO unless he can stop picking up yellows/reds his faults outweigh his advantages. I also think somebody taller and quicker is needed as a DM, Myler may or may not fit the job but I would like him in a run there to see if he can do it.
For me Cest, the guy is not to be relied upon. Could you for example, forgive him if he got sent off vs the 'mags' in a cup semi that you went on to lose? Because that's the type of player he is. He seems to accept when he's up against better players he pulls his socks up and tries hard, but he just sees red too often and he's really poor at doing it on the sly i.e. he always gets caught! James McCarthy Tom Huddlestone - those two would be more effective than Cattermole. Simon Rolfes Eugen Polanski - these (more expensive) guys would run the show, and make Cattermole redundant.
He's targeted by referees - all in all they may as well book him for turning up sometimes (like the one last night basically did) - there were 4 or 5 Morecambe challenges far worse than Cattermoles' yellow last night and we didn't even get a free-kick for most of them! OK so in his earlier years he was reckless but over the time that O'Neill has been in charge he has been excellent - The comparison in the Cup Semi would be null and void for me - Cabaye is a much dirtier player but seemingly is immune from the yellow card (at international level as well as club level) - referee's need to see past the fact that he's Lee Cattermole and treat him like everyone else - i have only once seen the red mist descend on cattermole since O'Neill took over and that was after the Newcastle game which, even Martin O'Neill said, there were a lot of mitigating circumstances (Krul raising hands to McClean and getting no punishment, Tiote committing 6 fouls before a booking - Cattermole committed 1 - and Tiote's stamp on Cattermoles achilles was by far the worst challenge of the game - but he got no punishment for it - maybe it's because Lee Cattermole doesn't roll about like he's been shot!) - I'm not saying Sessegnon shouldn't have been sent off but his little flick with the hand on Tiote was nowhere near the worst incident in the game - but it got the worst punishment
Cattermole is good to a point but I'm always on edge when I watch him tear arsing towards another player.. And you know the ref has usually started to pull out the card before the tackles even been made.. To push on we need a leader in the middle of the park who we can rely on to make the tackle and not get carded.. He is a time bomb and it may end up costing us in an important game. Please don't miss read this though I like catts, I like his passion and his no nonsense approach but he's almost a throw back to the 70's type centre mid and the game has changed now and got softer.
Marcus. I love Cattermoles winning mentality but my concern is this. His booking last night was totally justified and imo wreckless. However, if it hadn't been, it would nevertheless still count. Whether or not it was justified or not, my point is he then went on and made 2 or 3 equally wreckless lunging tackles afterwards and we were all waiting for the second yellow to be dished out, which in such a low key game, would have been ridiculous. I think Mon say that too and that's why he was substituted. He can be brilliant and stupid in the same game and that's frustrating for everyone. PS - Larssons passing and distribution is far better.
Not really Terry - my comments are not to argue with you just simply that, if you watch the minute leading up to the Cattermole tackle and compare the Morecambe players' tackle on him to the one he got booked for, the Morecambe players tackle was FAR FAR worse, but went unpunished - Cattermole missed the player completely with his tackle (and aimed for and got the ball) and got booked - I'm not saying "conspriacy theory" persay but compare any of his bookings to a "tackle" made by Steven Gerard last season (I think against Wolves but don't quote me on it) which was a terrible challenge which went unpunished by a ref which booked Cattermole for playing the ball a week earlier and you'd have to admit he gets worse treatment than others
Marcus He gets away with just as many mate, a handball on the line off the top of my head. I didn't watch your game vs Morcambe, but I don't really need to, to have an opinion on him. I'm not saying he's pathetic and can't play at this level, I'm simply looking at your other midfielders and saying he's not on their level. There's players who control games in this division with their passing, vision, tackling and ability to intercept the ball - he is not extensively competent in any of those fields, and to reiterate an earlier point, I don't think any true Sunderland fan would object to him being replaced by O'Neill.
Am I not a true Sunderland fan then? Been watching them since my first game in 81 (season ticket for 18 years except for the year my daughter was born when I was out of work - still only missed 5 games that season) I would object mate - you can only find one incident he got away with - there are hardly any mate - he NEVER gets away with fould - a handball on the line (which hit his head then his arm then the bar then his arm) which,, accpetably, was a red card offence, is probabluy the only one he's ever got away with. Watch the Arsenal game last week, or the Man City game where he outplayed £50m of midfielders last season (twice!!) Nigel De Jong couldn't get anywhere near him mate - his quality far outweighs his aggression - and it's simply being turned into aggression by O'Neill - he is nowhere near as dirty as a lot make out. As a TRUE sunderland fan, I want him to stay and play for us for a long time
Cest - MON took McClean off for the same reason and he never made a single bad tackle in the game mate - Cattermoles yellow was nowhere near as bad as the tacle on him 30 seconds earlier which we didn't get a free-kick for I don't disagrre about Larsson's distribution but that wasn't my point - my point is that this is Larsson's strongest quality and if he had played 10 long passes and 6 had been successful and 4 hadn't - everyone would rememeber the successful ones - Cattermole did the same and everyone remembers the unsuccessful ones - Cattermole is very good in the tackle and, as I say, the peopl that say he gave the ball away loads forget about the crossfield passes he made which were successful - this is the point with Cattermole - people get straight on his back for one mistake even if he's had 10 moments of brilliance - the crossfield passes he was picking last night were sublime mate - but no-one seems to remember any of them After he went off for Meyler we lacked the dogged determination in midfield - Cattermole never looked close to getting a second yellow for me - he controlled himself after he was booked
Must say although Catts has performed well in the first 2 games (one being morecambe tbf) What does he actually bring to the team? Apart from a reputation? Never shoots, can barely pass Tackling is scholes-esque at best Just there to make up numbers imo What i posted in another thread, dont rate him personally Think Colback is already better than him and is also a much more all-round player and was looking to bomb forward last night Prefer Colback in the team anyday
This sentence basically outlines everything I've said - you say he performed well in the first 2 games but say "One being morecambe TBF" i.e. highlightint that he played well against lower league opposition - the other game was Arsenal FFS - one of the best midfields in the country and he was MOTM against them and was awesome - You can't say he can't tackle when you watch that game
This!..I will always back Catts as long as he pulls a red and white shirt on, but I don't think the balance of the team is right when both him and Colback are in midfield together, and for me it would be a no-brainer who is the better footballer.
The answer to the question is, you can't. Cattermole will never change, he's had ample opportunity now. I think he is a decent defensive midfielder but he is a complete liability in terms of his discipline.
