Watching the everton utd match yesterday, i thought it showed again why a big man upfront can reap huge benafits, when he is played with quick players around him. Surely its worth a go with caroll in the middle of borini and suarez with gerrard behind. sorry if this was discussed last night.
That's just what I was saying watching it last night Its not a tactic that would work every game. Teams that put ten men behind the ball can smother that kind of play easily enough but when a team comes to play more openly it can be very effective. It doesn't even require surrounding him with pace (Jelavich, Osman etc aren't exactly the Jamaican relay team) but it needs hard workers and intelligence which we have in abundance. I suspect we won't see too much of AC starting for a while though which is a shame. I suspect he would have stuck one or two of our chances on Saturday away.
The difference between Fellaini and Carroll is that MF is a lot more mobile and therefore can assert his dominance all over the pitch, whereas Carroll is confined to the penalty box. When the ball is in the air, they are both beasts. But MF is also a beast when chasing the ball and closing down players. Whilst I'm not a big Andy Carroll fan, I too feel he can do a job up front. Play Borini and Suarez on either side and then start putting the balls in.
Do we really want to see Liverpool play like that? All they did was lump it to him, fair enough he was superb and won everything but its not going to be like that every game. I'd rather see us continue with our own pass and move style of play than copy someone else and play lump ball
Fergie might say it was lump ball but I disagree. It was good accurate diagonal passes. If it reaches the intended target I couldn't care less if it was in the air or on the floor. No one wants us just hitting aimless long balls but that was not what Everton did last night. Would you really complain if we utilised a similar tactic against certain teams and won games?
Carroll has occasionally done it for us- and this is the point:- occasionally. Fellaini is a good player, but yesterday he played out of his skin. I've seen many games where he's been fairly anonymous. He won't play like that every game, and if he did, it wouldn't always be as effective. If that were the case we could give the title to Everton now. I do think Andy is more than just a box player, I think he can bring a lot more to the team. However,he lacks confidence and determination, imo, an accusation you can't level at Fellaini. Regardless of our opinion, I think Carroll just doesn't fit in too well with BR's vision of the future for our club.
Surely his vision should purely be about winning games though Saint. If Mandy gives us the option to play with a different threat then why not utilise that. We all want lovely silky football but at what cost? As for his confidence...he seemed pretty full of it near the end of the season and during the Euros...I wonder how much of that has been drained away now. I doubt anyone thinks Mandy is the answer to all our woes anymore than Fellaini will bring will bring the title to Goodison but personally I'd rather have him on the pitch than Downing any day of the week
Well Rodgers is forever saying that he needs to utilise the players he has here. As Rafa did, the first thing Rodgers has to do is start getting results, and with Rafa, we went ultra defensive and slowly came out as confidence started breeding. Rodgers need to play ugly battering ram football, unless he splashes out. We don't want a manager who has principles that cost us. You always see these little teams, that we always pat on the back, and say "Well at least they came and actually played football" but we beat them 4-0. We are starting to look like one of those teams. We did it last year, we tried to play football, but we never scored, and Kenny's failing was to keep at it and hope for a breakthrough. Now first game, and Rodgers did the same thing. The test of him, will be if he makes changes, or sticks with his plan, that won't work without lots and lots of money.
On the whole I wouldn't disagree but Carroll´s better performances came at the back of the season and again at the euros to a certain extent, We shouldn't judge him by his overall time at Liverpool as he was injured & playing himself back into fitness for the most part. He obviously doesn't fit into Rodgers´ long term plans granted (for the record I also don't think he is the right man, long term) but he currently warrants a start over one or two of the starting players last Saturday, considering he looked to have settled and was finding some form towards the back end of the season. If anything, Andy needs to spend more time in the box, I lost count of the number of times there were balls played into the box last season and Carroll was nowhere to be seen, again this was the beginning of his tenure, so could have been a fitness issue, could have been the way Kenny was utilising him but Rodgers has a great weapon available to him, whether it is something he wants to utilise to get points or stick to his principals and continue implementing it, is his shout but I´ll be behind him every step of the way.
It either needs lots of money or plenty of time. I suspect he'll get neither so...I totally agree. Playing a successful pass and move game at the highest level requires an almost telepathic understanding between players and that doesn't come overnight...it also comes from having players who are full of confidence...the best way to breed confidence is to win games.
a lot of posts ehre but i won't bother reading and just blindly state that in case the op missed it felliani was being marked by CARRICK!!! had vidic a partner he would have gone and marked felliani and left jelavic to that partner. if andy had a player like carrick and a shrot assed midfield like utds to play agaisnt he'd have a field day... but then there's no way utd would leave vidic on suarez anyway so the point is entirely moot. its a one off game last night so if felliani can go do it all season then give him praise.
Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying we shouldn't use him- far from it. I think he's a much more skilful player than he's often given credit for. I think he's a good plan B and we certainly need one of those. My only point was that Fellaini doesn't play like that all the time, so taking one performance and extrapolating it into a template for our future because we have a similar sort of player is probably too simplistic.
"Interesting but stupid" as the German used to say in the Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In. Fellini and Carroll are 2 very different types of player. Carroll is most certainly a forward whereas Fellini is a midfielder. Everton play to Fellini's strengths whereas Liverpool expect Carroll to change his style to fit theirs. Trying to find similarities in their play is almost a pointless exercise. However, one painful truth exists. Everton are making the most of Fellini (and have done so for the last 2 seasons) whereas Liverpool haven't, can't or won't with Carroll. We no longer have a Rush or Fowler but we can learn from our previous experience and find a pattern wherein a big man was used to dramatic effect without resorting to hump-ball. For those of you who can remember, just cast your mind back to the Toshack/Keegan partnership. Tosh was never blessed with blinding pace. He was good but not as lethal in the air as Carroll. He did not have as powerful a shot a Carroll. But he did lay off balls well outside of the box and then attack the defenders in the box and drag them around creating space. Carroll can play exactly the same role and provide opprtunities for both suarez and Borini. Rodgers says he knows our history. Well if that's true then he's ignoring this piece. It's not Carroll's fault if players resort to lumping the ball it's theirs. Now don't tell me that the game has changed and its different today. If you want a modern day example of how Carroll could be usefully employed then look no further than David Villa at Barca. He will play as a faux striker and create space with and without the ball as defenders are drawn to the threat he poses anywhere near the box. Carroll can be used exactly the same way. BTW, last night showed one thing that other sides may like to consider. United's midfield is still rubbish when going backwards. But it's also lacking hight. Fellini played well but he was almost a shoe-in for any ball that was put in the air in midfield.
All last season I thought aving two quick, creative Suarez type players either side of Carroll would be solid. --Assaidi----------Suarez-- -----------Carroll---------- Could boss it.
Absolutely Saint I think we'd all agree with that. As I said in my first post its definitely not a tactic that can be employed all the time. It is however a tactic that we can and should employ as and when required...not hoof-ball...far from it, but from years of playing and watching football we all know that certain types of centre back absolutely hate playing against a guy like Carroll so just letting him rot on the bench out of stubborness may well hurt us as much as it hurts the player (not saying that's what BR is doing but I just think he needs to utilise all his options while he is building the squad to where he wants it to be).
Andy Carroll is a threat when he attacks the ball and should be encouraged to do so more often. Like Felliani, he is capable of destroying defenders. He's already cured John Terry's constipation. He must be encouraged to not go too deep and when possible attack the ball, he can score from 15-20 yards out with his head. Unlike you, I am an Andy Carroll fan, and I do believe he's dangerous when used properly. He will miss chances, but he does keep trying and that left foot is lethal.
