Firstly, the programme wasn't just about Britain, was it? It's argument wasn't about racism being prevalent in English football, per se, just football in general. And I would suggest it better to be negative, and conclude there is work to be done, than positive and sit back and relax.
No it wasn't supposed to be just about Britain but that's what the thrust of Clark Carlisle's comments were about. Most of his observations were about how he had misjudged the state of the English game and that is what the programme was about following the Suarez and Terry cases. And I would suggest that if he was positive about the progress being made it wouldn't be seen as "interesting telly".
A few things I would like to add - there is a difference between discrimination and racism. In terms of racism it is more about power than just hate. Its a kind if you dont have the power you cannot be racist. so blacks CAN discriminate against whites n Britain but ultimately the system is geared to give power to the whites. clumsy effort but hope you get it - Black managers etc is also a little bit more deep rooted IMO. I remember trying to recruit staff for the local authourity in reasonable positions. Most black and asian people didnt even complete the forms as they didnt see the point or were afraid. Which in itself is a sign of what racism has done I also believe the experiences of the likes of chris Kamarra at stoke didnt help - Asian (specifically Indian/pakistan/Bengali) kids are absolutely fanatical about football, yet believe the structures are agaisnt them and there have been a resultant 'asian' leagues that have added to the division. Ironically I think asian players are developing into the kind of playes that people want to see england become. Basically not 6 foot 6 and good at hoofing. The asian players are more likely to copy messi than beckham
"Racism", as in believing the superiority of one's own race over another, has been around for a lot longer than the timespan of white dominance. The ancient Chinese regarded all others as inferior. The ancient Greeks regarded non-Greek speakers as "barbarian"(that included our ancestors). Before the trans-Atlantic slave trade got going, many Europeans were traded as slaves by North African corsairs. The Arabs were enthusiastic raiders of Sub-Saharan Africans and treated them even worse than the trans-Atlantic traders(who had paid African chiefs for theirs, and didn't usually want to lose on their investment). What is the caste system based on in India? I'm sure some people can justify it in terms of "culture" but it differentiates primarily(although not exclusively) on skin tone and ethnic features. Plenty of evidence of this phenomenon in all cultures(except possibly Australian aborigines, but who knows?) - it's wrong in all cases-no special pleading. As for minority status- does this apply in world terms(whites a tiny minority), national terms(whites a majority in UK), or locality(whites a minority in some areas of English cities)? In other words, does being the only white kid in class mean that you CAN suffer racism, even though nationwide you're in a majority? Once we start applying different standards for different ethnicities, we are applying our own stereotyping based on race-isn't that racist?
Stereotyping is just stereotyping and something that is an everyday occurence. It's when that leads to a segregation and belittling that it becomes racism.
Are we talking about apartheid in Britain, or self-imposed segregation/ghettos? Is the National Black Police Association an example of segregation? What about faith schools? I personally find a "belittling" attempt at dodgy humour to be a less worrying form of "racism" than an uneven application of law or public opprobrium due to "minority" status. Isn't applying different standards to different ethnic groups, "belittling" and patronising in itself?
Agreed, the idea that only 'whites' are racist denotes a certain belief in racism from the person making that comment. At the end of the day regardless of what job application forms say, white caucasian is nothing more than a description of a large group of people who share a high percentage of a certain genetic lineage. Racism is nothing more than the hatred or dislike of someone different from themselves, and in the english language it tends to refer to those who dislike someone of a different skin colour and/or ethnic background. All Humans are Humans, with individual backgrounds dating back hundreds of thousands of years (or 6000 if your a creationist) from different regions and therefore develop a slightly different skin colour/feature depending on where their ancestors lived. To hate someone based on this fact is entirely irrational, illogical and probably based on an emotional reaction. I suppose most of it is misplaced hatred, a player from a different ethnic background plays badly and the fans blame his ethnic background instead of his actual skill or the fact that player had a bad day. The rest of racism in football is usually because racist beliefs have been hammered into the racist fans head his or her whole life, or perhaps because of a particular event that happened to that person in their life which has caused them to blame people of another race, ethinic background or culture. Exactly why countries that include large white caucasian populations are likely to be more racist is unknown to me, but I know that it is not unique to white caucasian populations. In fact during the Rwandan genocide a lot of people from western countries were puzzled as to why the tutsis and hutus were killing eachother, I doubt it had much to do with white influences of racist ideology.
As an Indian, this is absolute rubbish - some of the most rasist comments I've ever heard have come out of the mouths of other Asians towards any and all other races. Indeed, the worst racist abuse I've ever recieved has been from other Asians - "coconut" is the word of choice that has been directed at me more than once. I'm ashamed to admit I used this word as a young teen myself; in my defence I was young, emulating others and not fully aware of it's full implications at the time. I've only once been racially abused by a white adult. And not at all by the any white person for over a decade, at least not overtly. Yeah, there are a lot of cultural bars stopping Asians getting involved in pro-sport generally. Mainly emphisis on the value of academia and\or bussiness. Parents worry what'll happen if their children are one of the thousands of also-rans in sport whereas you can't go far wrong with a degree. With regards to football in particular, remember, we're a new immigrant group, largely only here since the '60s. It's as foreign sport to the older generation (I'm the first football fan in my family - my parents have learnt it from me) the risk of the unknown is even greater, that's why there are more Asians in cricket; it's a "known unknown", football was an "unknown unknown". But there are thousnds of Asians in the stands now - my (3rd) generation are starting to get married and have kids and we like football. A few years from now you'll see more Asians in youth academies. The best thing the clubs could do to reassure Asian (and I suspect many other) parents is showcase the fact that they provide excellent academic support along with the footballing education.
I've only experienced Racism twice at Football. One at Fulham and one walking to Fratton when a Bristol fan thought he'd be brave behind the police horses. (Sad though as most Brizzle fans I've met are nice people). It's certainly not as overt as it was 30 years ago. But covert racism doesn't really bother me. People can think what they want IMO. It's when they start truly believing what they think and acting upon these usually mis-informed views that it not only becomes hurtful but potentially dangerous.
My goodness, this thread running along nicely. Not even sure whether the programme is available on iPlayer anymore. Anyway, to my point... It's nice to see that education has made its mark on everyday society. When I was a child, in the 1960's, and in my teens in the 1970's, racism was pretty much an everyday occurrence that just went largely unreported. Sectarianism was actually the news in the UK. There was none of the, almost apartheid style separation, that went on in the US, and certainly not in the then, Rhodesia [Zimbabwe], and South Africa, but it still existed in the minds of many people. The peculiar thing is that, at the same time, there were still the last tendrils of respect for elders and experts, and children were still allowed to be children, so parents were still the governing shapers in the manners of their offspring. So it comes as a bit of a paradox that, whereas the education on racism has largely worked superbly, on recent generations, those same people can be loud mouthed and disrespectful to others and elders, despite the ongoing education which teaches that if one is respectful to others, they in turn will respect you. I suppose the big teacher today is the media. Influence has moved from parenthood to that area. Parents don't have a chance with their 5 minutes of attention per day, when the outside influences are proclaiming... more, more, you must want more..! Let's not run away with the idea that I'm suggesting people should resort to forelock tugging or prostration, because remember, in my mind I'm a republican, so I tug no forelock for anyone. But it's treating others in the same manner as how you would ideally like to be treated, that's the key. A little forgiveness, or at least a little less damning, when you make an accidental error, a little recognition when you do something of real worth. I suppose a little more giving from everyone to everyone. It's relatively easy to be outraged, because it requires little effort. It's all adrenalin. And it's often what forums exist for. It's harder to understand, because it requires more effort. And it seems we haven't got time or energy for unimportant stuff like that, despite people everywhere saying... we really should have a little more [quality - yuck..!] time for others. The message on racism was and is a crystal clear one. Let's have the same for everybody.
I have to say i'm glad we haven't seen any of the vile kind of arguments you tend to see on youtube comments on this thread. On youtube comments people can't say anything without it devolving into some kind of row about something, often race. I'd like to think that the majority of fans have made progress when it comes to this subject. Although I don't find any racist abuse excusable (unless it is an ironic joke that belittle's and pokes fun at the racists themselves), and think that receiving racist abuse 'just once' is still one too many times. Its not acceptable behaviour, and I laugh everytime someone claims that their rights are being impeded because they aren't allowed to be racist anymore. If you asked them their thoughts on the rights of minorities, they would claim that they don't deserve rights, its like they are using freedom of speech as a way of defending their right to condemn freedom of speech.
